Warbird Information Exchange

Hi All

Do any of you happen to have any good detail shots of the centre hub cap from a P47 Hamilton Standard prop or the same cap if it was fitted to anything else. The Hellcat hub looks very similar.
It's the bolt at the front that i'm most interested in.

Thanks

Ben

it is not a bolt, it is the hex in the center of a cap. You can remove the cap and install a lifting handle to help in the removal of the prop dome. They are a bit on the heavy side.

I dunno how similar they are, but Retroaviation shot some pretty good detail pics of the
prop removal procedure on "Diamond Lil"(IIRC), sticky posted at the top of the hangar page.
You might pm him..I'm not sure where they'd be in 187 pages of data!

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DBF

A little search never hurt! Based on this
Old Thread

I would say the same dome as Corsairs with the 4blade Hydromatic and other #60 spline applications like this....

Let's see if I can make this work.

All Hamilton Standard Hydromatic props, (Excludes the props with counterweights like T-6) have a plug in the front of the dome. On Mustangs this plug has a shaft that extends forward and the fwd spinner uses this as a support. SBD had some special feature in the plug that was used as part of the engine breather vent system. That is why they also added the little hat type cover over the front of the dome.
These props were quite a piece of engineering in its design and manufacturing methods.
Rich

Martin

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Flying is easy: just learn how to throw yourself at the ground and miss

Super cool to see a pic I took answer a question!! (You can see my short little self in the polished Corsair hub )

Here is a bigger version of Tarheel Hal from the same show I snapped the Corsair hub at.



Eric

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597

I would have credited you but as it was a simple link to this THREAD already on this forum I just pasted properties.
There were other pics on WIX of this dome but yours was sharpest, color , and highest in the search pecking order!
Well done GrumpE.

Thank you all very much, you've answered my question then some.....the knowledge shared here is second to none.

If i can ask another related question. did the hub stay standard on most types of the time using Hamilton Standard props with only the blade changing according to type and if so what types used this style hub same as the P47 shown (and corsair) ?

Thanks again

Ben

Oh not intending any type of request for credit. simply was cool to see it.

I love this site!

Eric

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597

Okay Reno,
To get more info you may need to better identify the parts of the propeller according to their proper name. Let's look at this diagram, shall we?


As you can see, there is no part named "hub". The assembly of everthing but the blades is often referred to as the "hub". As you can see, there are lots of parts in there and lots of ways the engineer and applications people can alter it to where it may look the same but they will not perform the same. From the external viewpoint, the hubs may all have identical appearance with the big seperations being number of blades, feathering ability, anti-icing equipment, and SAE spline size. Here is a generic applications chart.....

Hamilton Standard Propeller Applications (Partial List)

AIRCRAFT HUB OR
TYPE # BLADE #
B-29 24F60 6521
AVRO LANCASTER 23EX 6519
B-17 F & G 23E50 6477
B-25 ALL SERIES 23E50 6477
PBY CATALINA 23E50 6353
A-26 INVADER 23E50 6359
VENTURA 23E50 6477
B-25 ALL SERIES 23E50 6359A
MOSQUITO 23EX 6519
A-20 HAVOC/BOSTON 23E50 6353
AVENGER 23E50 6359
DAUNTLESS 23E50 6511
F6F HELLCAT 23E50 6541
P-51 24D50 K6523
CORSAIR 23E50 6525
C-97 24F60 6521-6
C-54 23E50 6507
C-47 23E50 6477
C-82 33E60 6491
C-69 CONSTELLATION 33E60 6491
OS2U KINGFISHER 2D20 - CW 6167
C-45/JRC 2D30 -CW 6167
C-87/JRB 2B20 - CW 6135
BT-13/15/SVN 2D30 - CW 6101
AT-6/SNJ/HARVARD 12D40 - CW 6101



NOTES:

1) CW = Counterweight type, all others Hydromatic





Externally, I would say that just about any 4 bladed, 60spline application will LOOK like the p-47 application you ask of. That means even B29 and C97.....waaaaay bigger engines than the R2800 and vastly different applications so you KNOW they will not interchange exactly.
Here's a B29 on a 3350.....


Except for the alky tubes, it sure do LOOK the same as those above doesn't it?!?!?
Does that make sense? I am no expert on these.....just collecting data and hoping to find you an answer. I would hazard a guess that the barrels and domes could indeed be close to the same for any 4F60 but certain details will change the part number so it would be difficult to tell. For instance, 2 identical parts in every way...dimension, alloy, heat treatment, etc EXCEPT surface treatment Cad plate vs. painted are often given different numbers. Would the entire hub assembly be the same for a B29 as a P-47? I certainly doubt it. 80% of the parts might....but not all.
The unknown to me at this point is the blade shank size....If you look at the P47 and F4U-5 pics above by GrumpE, they are stenciled to use 6507 series blades. If you look at the chart listed above, 6507 is listed for a C54 and has an E size shank. An E size shank blade certainly takes a different barrel than an F shank blade. Was there a 4E60 hub? Beats me...I'll let those in the know fix that.

Ham Std hydromatic basic design remained pretty much the same but had hundreds of variations. 2, 3 and 4 blades, 30, 40, 50, 60 spline or British prop shafts, feathering or non-feathering, reversing, de-incing provisions, 3 different blade designs- D, E and F, ect.
The basic components are;
Spider- This carries the rotational loads and is really the internal structure and strength of the prop. The center mounts to the prop shaft of the engine and all the blades slide onto individual shafts Each blade is able to pivot to change blade angle or pitch on the individual shaft as well as be supported as the propellor rotates. The prop shaft nut holds the spider in place.
Hub- This is the external 2 piece shell you see in the photos. It captures the butt end of the blades and bearings so the prop blades won't become lawn darts and fly off. Also the dome assy attaches to the front of the hub. The hub has to withstand severe loads as an 50 lb + blade rotates at around 1500 rpm prop speed.
Blades- Hundreds of designs and lengths. 3 basic base designs- D, E and F.
Domes- Several variations here as well. There is a mechanism inside the alum shell which changes the prop pitch. There is a oil transfer shaft that screws onto the ID of the engine prop shaft to provide pressurized oil to the internal dome mechanism. Oil and centrifugal forces are used to change the prop pitch or bite into the wind.
Soon I will assy a Mustang Prop here and will post photos of that.
Rich

Sorry for any confussion, by hub i was describing the front and back castings and the dome as an assembly, no blades. Thanks again for the info.
I'm looking forward to see you put the P51 prop together.

Ben