Warbird Information Exchange

Perhaps people are playing with me, but I have gotten TWO inquiries in the last week asking for signifigant airframe parts to use as components in furniture manufacture.

Now, since we live in the land of OJ Simpson and Ted Turner, where enough money can get you whatever you want, I'm laying down the following business principle:

1. The primary mission of Forgotten Field Aviation Technical Center is to further the cause of powered flight by man.

2. As part of our basic mission, the parts collection is intended for sale to those who are actively engaged in the following endeavors:
(a) restoration of flying aircraft;
(b) restoration of historic aircraft components to operational condition for public display and education;
(c) restoration of historic aircraft to static condition for public display.

3. All other uses of component parts will be considered on a case by case basis, but I reserve the right to refuse sale to some one who has suspect motives in using the parts.

This is not intended as any disrespect to those engaged in the manufacture of furniture with aviation related themes. While I do not have any great appreciation of such craft objects, I do respect the effort that goes into making them. However, my effort is to keep aircraft flying into the next few centuries (you read it right, I'm in it for the long haul).

What does this mean to the average person making inquiries? First, I am going to make efforts to ascertain which airframe you are working on. I understand that there are certain considerations regarding ownership/title to certain aircraft, and as I am sensitive to this, I am only interested in making sure you are REALLY working on a project. This might involve you sending me photos of your project, or asking for references to speak for you. I assure you that I am only interested in making sure I am not sending critically needed parts to someone building a coffee table.

One of the inquiries was directly from here on the WIX board- not a member, but someone who certainly watches. I still welcome all inquiries but am really not interested in providing parts for furniture manufacture (unless you want to buy my PBM Mariner Bunks and Mess Tables).

John K. Seidts
Forgotten Field Aviation Technical Center

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I'll drink to that statement!

But I really hope someone is playing games with you.

_________________
www.tailhookstudio.com

John,
I agree completely.
But (there's always a but!) be cautious not to alienate a possible customer with an interogation on what they're using the stuff for. People can be a bit a touchy when it comes to that stuff. Some people (like myself or other on this board for example) aren't necessarly restoring something but may want a piece of one. Where do you draw the line????

Over the years, I have collected various aircraft bits from various
sources. Some are twisted bits, unusable for patterns, but I keep them around because they're cool. Most shops would toss them with the scrap,
because they can't afford to save it all. I also have some complete "bits"
which I would like to see fly,but in the meantime...I like to keep them
around...but eventually would like to see them go to a "proper assemblage" making its way through the air! Or assembled as a static
display in order to keep the "airworthys" ready for flight.

In my opinion, some "good" relics are just as safe among small collecters
as they are the larger ones. Consider us little Soplatas and Maloneys.
We appreciate our 'junk" every day! I WOULD NOT drill a hole thru a jug
to make a lamp..that's what the spark plug hole is for. Consider us as
"half-way" houses for homeward bound parts!

If FF is taking pains to document ownership..maybe it would not be very
difficult to keep a "cardfile" of appreciative collecters who buy "bits" from
him...for his later inquiries for that "bit" to go to a "worthy" project.

FF, I'm sure you have some neat stuff in yer personal collection...but
the one I've seen lately that I "covet"..is the Airacomet fuel gage...that
is truly unique!!!!

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Jack,
Good point and in getting stoked about it, I didn't articulate my whole philosophy. I started as a collector and in no way wish to stop people from purchasing items from me as collectibles. That crate of 572 B26 Marauder Flap and Landing Gear gauges is going to help ALL the Marauders for quite some time. So I don't mind a few (meaning all but 5 or 10 of them) going to private collectors. And I do sell them that way.

My main concern is airframe pieces for pattern/use. The first inquiry was for a Corsair wing a few months ago, when "Wing Nuts" started. At the time, I was trying to help somebody legitimately find one for pattern and it really cranked me to have someone out there asking for "a non airworthy" one. First, the guy had no idea what non-airworthy meant. Second, he had no concern or obvious knowledge of the difficulties faced by restorers when it comes to acquiring parts JUST FOR PATTERN. Third, he was going to make it into a table, locked in someone's basement or kitchen of their third or fourth home, not accessible to the public. I wasn't too keen. I'd rather spend the time looking for a wing for a restoration than for somebody's kitchen.

As for privacy and sensitivities of collectors, I am fine with that. A private collection is a private collection and should stay that way. But my business statement was made to put people on notice that I prefer to sell/trade a signifigant fuselage section to a working museum operation, as opposed to putting one on display in their private home (an actual request from a friend of mine who said money was no object).

That said, I get contacts from all sorts of interested parties, from movie industry to kid's interested in airplanes. I treat them all with the courtesy and respect I would like to be treated with. I am interested in aviation and want every person who walks out of my hangar to know something they didn't know before they walked in. I want them to be interested and support it. When I was a kid, I didn't have the chance to get involved in aviation, and this is me re-living my childhood. It's great!

Just don't ask me to sell you a P51 horizontal for a conference table...

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I agree wholeheartedly! Every collector is a small repository of knowledge and unique understanding of aviation history. You have put that so well. NO ONE can remember the whole detailed equation.

So everybody, if you haven't done so already, come buy your "lil' museum" starter kit from Forgotten Field!

Seriously, what we do here, whether as a modeler, professional rebuilder, collector, or amateur historian, is very important. Everybody take a bow. The world isn't watching, but who cares. This stuff is great and we are involved in it because WE know it!

Chino didn't want the P59 gauge, so it is for sale/trade. Whatcha got?

_________________
REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

I'm not much of a parts collector but do have a B-25 horizontal hanging in my garage. On the F4U wing as a pattern, we happen to have a set (-1) in our hanger that belongs to a friend who has a -4. I think the -1 & -4 wings were interchangeable. Any P-40 tid bits????

I'm curious about whether the "Wing Nuts" program has really boosted the business at Moto Art or not...or worse, spawned copy-cat companies doing the same thing. In the program, you can see they were always hanging on the edge of bankruptcy (or were made to appear that way). I'd like to know whether or not business is now booming for them.

One thing I did notice in a recent program was that at a trade show, they made the comment that they had enough materials to make "only" a dozen of the B-25 desks. I have to imagine that of the dozen B-25 elevators they have, some of those were in airworthy condition (or close enough) to be utilized for flying restorations...or used in static displays, if nothing else. Then again, maybe B-25 elevators are more numerous than I suspect...anybody know just how rare they are?

I have to admit I'm kind of hooked to the Wing Nuts show, but mostly to see what they find (and eventually destroy) in the scrap yards. With any luck, the program won't suddenly make the warbirds out there more valuable as desks than as flying objects. I'm okay with turning soon-to-be scrapped DC-9s into "artwork" or turning scrap bombs into tables (although some airline buffs or ordinance fans might disagree), but doing the same to warbirds is a little sad, considering the history behind them.

Mark

What history is there behind a B-25 elevator? That elevator has likely never been overseas and was probably a spare for a stateside training or hack aircraft in the 1950's. There is no shortage of B-25 control surfaces I can assure you. Because of the cotton fabric covering used in that era, there are lots of spares. They were frequently swapped out while the old ones were being recovered.

I met Dave and Donovan at ICAS this year and spoke with them a bit about the success of the show and such. Looks like it will not be running again next season as the channel decided that it wasn't as interesting with the loss of one of the main characters, Tim. Business seems to be fine for them, and the interesting thing that they told me was that the channel wouldn't let them do any sales calls while the show was being shot... so that was half the problem. Right before the shooting began, they found and purchased a new studio that would supposedly double their space... but the channel wouldn't let them move into it until after shooting was done months later... thus they had to pay double rents. Like any reality show, they said that a lot of the shooting was pieced together out of context in many cases, thus making it look worse than it was.

I bet that there will be some sort of copycat work done, but I am sure this was bound to happen at some point. Remember that clocks made from propellers were around for a while too... though this makes it much more tempting to the everyday person.

Ryan Keough

Clocks made from props...a near neighbour of ours had it in mind for some twenty years to do this, but never got round to it, and that's why there's a near-pristine Anson prop now mounted on the wall of my loft!

S.

Hi

This came up before and I posted on it then.

My 50c worth is
I agree completely with not making furniture out of this stuff - it's nuts and makes no sense - it is worth a lot more as parts than furniture.

2) For furniture use someone is on a goldmine if they knock out rough approximations of the stuff these guys want - it looks the same but isn't doing any harm.

3) Why not use parts from scrapped modern aircraft in Arizona etc - it's going to be melted down anyway and who can tell the difference between B25 and B52 when it's a coffee table.

Regards
John P

_________________
Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

>What history is there behind a B-25 elevator? That elevator
>has likely never been overseas and was probably a spare for
>a stateside training or hack aircraft in the 1950's.

The same logic could be applied to 70-90% of the flying warbirds out there too...many of the survivors we see today never went to combat zones. But having a flying example of the aircraft (no matter the history that particular example has) is still a lesson in history. Taking a kid to see a B-25 or B-17 that is flying at an airshow will make a bigger impression than seeing a static example in a museum. And if that impression inspires someone to learn more about the war, then the plane served it's role as an historical object.

Besides, there are plenty of objects that have history but never did anything glamorous. Old cars and trains that served very functional, utilitarian roles still are prized objects and tell us something about the era from which they came. Same goes with old aircraft. A B-25 elevator attached to a B-25 tail tells a better story than it does sitting as part of a desk in some corporate manger's private office.

>There is no shortage of B-25 control surfaces I can assure you.
>Because of the cotton fabric covering used in that era, there are
>lots of spares. They were frequently swapped out while the old
>ones were being recovered.

That's why I wondered aloud how numerous they are. Even if they are plentiful, I still can't get myself to agree that making desks out of them is a proper use. But that's my opinion. Today it's a plentiful B-25 elevator made into a desk. Tomorrow, it's a rare Corsair wing made into a table.

However I much I disagree with the use of these objects, if people have the money and find a willing seller and buyer, they're free to do with them as they please. I just don't have to like it...

Mark

Hi

So like I said - just make a knock off copy of a B25 tail and sell that - everyone's happy.

Regards
John P

_________________
Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

I want a pair of BT wings fer a bunk bed I wanna make, I know ya gotta have em in that warehouse of your'n!!

<VeryEvilGrin>

Hey, BTW, was listening to 98 Rawk and heard that ol holiday fave, "Essex Wonderland" and thought of you. <snicker>

Merry/Happy to you and the family John..

_________________
Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts