1950's/60's usaf / nasa x-20 dyna-soar project info needed

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:49 pm

ok space buffs here is a long shot!! i am looking for info on a possible future magazine article in relation to the x-20 dyna-soar project. ( the grandaddy to our current space shuttle) i'm trying to do an article on a supposed astronaut that participated in the training program. he supposedly trained & passed the program, but never flew in space. his name was oris e. frizzell. i know the dyna-soar project never got off the planning stages, other than a mockup model. i've visited various websites relating to the dyna-soar project, contacted nasa's historical archive & have come up with zip zilch zero on mr frizzell. his 2nd wife, who is now in her mid to late 70's approached me about his story. i think she may be confused about his involvement in the program. mr frizzell was a specialist in nuclear power prior to the dyna-soar project & after his supposed astronaut termination when the project was cancelled. i know it was proposed that the x-20 engine be powered with nuclear reactor capabilities. i feel this is where frizzell's involvement was linked. any info on this guy, no matter how trivial it may seem would be appreciated!! his wife merely wants his story told if true. she is so nice & she deserves the happiness she could potentially get from the story if his involvement is fact. many thanks for any help!! tom

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

tom d. friedman wrote:

ok space buffs here is a long shot!! i am looking for info on a possible future magazine article in relation to the x-20 dyna-soar project.

Why not try Boeing?

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:45 am

There is an outstanding book written on the subject. The title escapes me right now, but I know that when I used to work at the Museum of Flight up in Seattle we had it in stock in the bookstore there.

The book has reprints of the plans, of the actual slide presentations given to the USAF, etc. Lots of cold, hard factual research-type information. I seem to remember also thinking the book was a little light on telling the "human interest" side of the program.

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:12 am

You might try a guy named Ron Wanttaja. In my earliest net period, I
discovered this really varied web-site. Boeing country, but also Pete
Bowers country. This site, reflects that background. Budget "homebuilt"
tips...to pulse-jets and rocket belts. Practical, but serious history respect.

Wanttaja is a Boeing Systems Engineer with Int. Space Station background
etc....also enjoys displaying early Naval nautical history. I'll wager he
would be able to lead you to the folks you seek. I'll also check locals..
I got retired NASA guys-per-acre here.

Intro...
www.wanttaja.com

Aero "shtuff"
www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/

PS
The Nuke reactor engine you described is "tickling" my "grey matter"..and
I want to say Nuclear Ion Propulsion...but thats lotsa' history ago.
Good luck, Tom!

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:53 pm

mr air nutz, many thanks for the lead!! i emailed ron tonight & i eagerly await his reply. hopefully i will hit paydirt, or he can provide more info than i have now which amounts to a huge goose egg zip zilch zero. i appreciate you taking the trime to provide the lead. i will let you know if it pans out. thanks loads, tom

Locobuster · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:07 am

Tom, have you looked at this?

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/boeing/x-20.htm

Two of the people who posted there had some connection to the aircraft, (one seems to have worked for Boeing)you might be able to get in touch with them.

I am also trying to track down an old acquaintance who was an engineer with NASA to see if he can shed any light on the project or may know of anyone who might be able to help you out.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:44 am

i looked briefly at the site as i have to leave for work, but it has some real great info, & alot of collaboration & contributions from old participants in the program. this site may give me the best avenue for research so far. i will definetley pick a few brains their!! many thanks for the most solid lead i've gotten yet!! regards, tom

Locobuster · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:00 pm

No problem, Tom, glad I could help and glad I had just visited tht page a few days ago and remembered it. I sent out an e-mail to the last address I had for my buddy who worked at NASA, it's been at least four years since I've corresponded with him, I hope it is still valid. I am also digging around for a book he sent me way back when where he listed what projects he had been involved with, I know he had some role in the early lifting body projects so he may well have had some connection to the X-20 or may know folks who were involved.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:05 pm

thanks for your efforts & taking your time to help, it is most appreciated. i posted a notice on the site of who i'm looking for info about, w/ my email address, hopefully i'll get a bite or even bites!! any leads from your buddy would be great if his email is still current. i was most dissapointed that nasa glenn in cleveland ohio (only 35 minutes from me) didn't have anything on frizzell. but what really pissed me off was the fact that the schmucks their got rid of mr frizzell's files that his wife graciously donated a few years ago. some bean counter their either disposed of the archive, or it's at the national record repository in missouri. if his data is their it will take time to find, which is better than being lost for ever, which also could be the case. either way it is going to be a struggle to get the poop on mr frizzell if his being an astronaut slated for the x20 project is true. thanks, tom

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:54 am

Hey Tom,
I was perusing a "new" old book store, and ran across an informative book
about the X-programs. Titled "The X Planes, X-1 to X-31" by Jay Miller,
Orion Books, 1988.

In a chapter dedicated to X-20, Mr. Miller named 6 individuals who were selected as pilots for the Dyna-Soar flights and test program. Five were
USAF officers, and 1 was a NASA test pilot. Mr. Frizzell was not one of
those names. Maybe he didn't "make the cut". I find it intriguing though,
that he turned-in his files and notes to the NASA Archives. The guy was
clearly wanting his work documented. Unfortunately..you have more
"digging" than you probably cared to do. No Joy from my local NASA
retirees..program too old...or not their area of expertise. I'll keep
asking-about. Good Luck Tom!

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:24 am

airnutz, glad i caught you on at this hour!! thanks for your efforts!! i have drawn repeated blanks on mr frizzell as well, but i haven't given up yet. i do know that prior to x-20 involvement frizzell was a navy pilot, flew pby catalinas in ww 2, got out of the navy at the end of the war, & went back in post war, training pilots in high speed nuclear bomb drop egress manuevers over labrador. as far as his scientific credentials go he was with the nuclear regulatory commission, u.s. bureau of standards, & other government nuclear agencies up to his retirement in the 80's. i may seriously put this issue to bed once & for all by contacting neil armstrong personally through his museum in wapakoneta ohio, & the aviation hall of fame in dayton where he is active with the organization. he was the most prominent member of the x-20 program pilot members. if he doesn't know frizzell then it's a dead issue. maybe he washed out of training?? maybe his wife is confused?? i kind of feel his involvment was in propulsion, as it was proposed that dyna soar was to be nuclear powered. maybe he was like don knotts in the reluctant astronaut movie of the 1960's??, if your old enough to remember that!! the weirdest thing is that i have his necrology after his death, this guy had nuclear & aviation credentials out the ying yang, but no mention of the dyna soar project. his widow is a real doll, in her early 80's & i want to please an old lady in her waning years, so onward i go!! thanks much again for taking your time to help me. regards, tom the kosher kamikaze p.s. have emailed ron w. as you suggested with no replies

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:15 am

Tom, Don't lose "heart"..digging up schtuff is a slow process. Of course,
you have a bit of a "hurry" in your endeavor since his widow is in her
advanced years. Part of your stated motivation is to give her some peace
in Orin's memory...possibly complemented with your published article. It
would I'm sure, give her a joy to see his name in published print !

Regardless, Oris Frizzell appears to have been a fascinating individual
at the crossroads of technology! There is still a story there. What was
his connection to Catalinas?

Of the Jay Miller book..I don't recall Neil Armstrong as one of the listed
USAF selectees for Dyna-Soar...but as fate would have it..I was in a
hurry! Got to the store about 20 mins. before closing. Even if Armstrong
wasn't a selectee..he would certainly be one of the "serious" guys to ask.
If not, he would certainly be able to get you closer to the Boeing/NASA
guys you seek. I'll be going back to the store Sun. or Mon....will check
names of pilots.

Your posting "right at the top" of the Aeroknow feedback list ought to yield
you something!

Happy Hunting Tom!

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:36 pm

airnutz, thanks for reply & motivational pep talk!! i intend to keep going until i find out if frizzell's story is true or not. if not, well... then on to other aviation literary ventures. ron wanttaja contacted me today after i emailed him again, i didn't get his 1st email successfully. very nice guy but no real leads except pointing me to 1 robert godwin, an A# 1 authority on nasa space history with a bunch of books to his credit. looked on the internet for his address, email address, phone, etc, but no luck, only his books for sale. all the best, tom

HELLDIVERS · **Joined:** Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:38 pm **Posts:** 642

HI HAVE YOU CHECKED LOS ALAMOS I ALSO HAVE HEARED THAT G.E. WAS INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE POWER PLANT,THANKS MIKE

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:45 am

Hey Tom,
Sorry Wantajja didn't pan out...he coulda been more helpful. I did a little
searching and found that Mr. Godwin is the owner of CG Publishing. He
is very respected in his field. I am a fan of any Pro who is a fan of Tolkien,
Led Zepplin, and Astronautics! A very etherial mix to say the least!

http://greenbooks.theonering.net/tribut ... odwin.html

His publishing company Collectors Guide Publishing, is at the following link.
Scroll down to Contacts..and you will see that the "Heads" of Admin HQ &
US Sales, are named Godwin. I think you'll be able to send "HIM" a note!

www.cgpublishing.com

As for contact to Jay Miller..he is a 'tough nut to crack'..he likes his privacy
and is also very esteemed in his field. A former Director of the American
Airlines CT Smith Museum at the former Amon Carter Field near DFW. Mr.
Miller has written about 30 books amongst which, he has co-authored with
several other well known authors. All of these efforts are well regarded
in the Aerospace field! X-Projects, Sr-71, Lockheed Skunk Works etc., &
Aerospace Consultant to the press. I did find the E-mail addresses of one
of his co-authors and a reporter "local" to his neighborhood in Arlington,TX
who has interviewed him...I will PM those to you. One Co-Author is located
in Seattle...back to Boeing country!

One other thing about Miller..in the mid 90's he sold his entire Aviation
History Collection to the Aerospace Education Center, Little Rock, Ark...
it is centered in the Aerospace Collection there. Millers 6000 books, 50K
periodicals and journals,a large photo-collection, and NACA/NASA data
and documentation, all there. His latest "great feat" ...to my knowledge...
is he co-founded with Chad Slattery..The annual, International Symposium
of Aviation Photography. The guy never quits!!!

Millers Collection in Arkansas, they have Research Accomodations...
www.cals.lib.ar.us/miller/about.html

Miller and Slattery...ISAP at Nellis AFB,2004... biggest 04 Red Flag
www.fencecheck.com/articles/base_visits ... ninger.php
Good Luck Tom !

PS
One of my fondest childhood memories were of the old days at Amon
Carter Field. At the entry of Amon Carter, was planted the behemoth B-36
"The City of Ft. Worth". At that time in the early 60's on-board tours were
conducted. Imagine having a "good romp" on that monster...I even went
fer the "trolley ride" to the aft end. What a Toy for a kid! Good days !!!!!

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