Allied Me-109? Seen this?

noizeedave · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:53 pm

Hey there. ANyone seen this?

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:09 pm

i've not seen that particular pic, but i've been told a number of captured german aircraft were flown in combat against the enemy, whether for grins, confusion to the enemy, or just testing. however i have no documentation to back this up.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2683

Looks to be a Bf-109G Trop, probably North Africa or Sicily. A captured German aircraft painted in American markings doesn't necessarily mean it was flown.

The "65" may represent the 65th Fighter Squadron, 57th Fighter Group, 12th Air Force.???

Regards,
Mike

Thomas · **Joined:** Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:14 pm **Posts:** 92

If it was flown against them....well then......that's just flippin funny! :lol:

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:15 pm

There were several 109s captured and flown by allied forces - US, British and Australian among others. They usually were flown by a front line unit for fun (sometimes alleged combat training) then sequestered by higher up and taken back for more formal evaluation. Both the 109G 'Black 6' (Captured by 3 Sqn RAAF) now in the RAF Museum and the 109E also at Hendon went this route.

AFAIK, no 109s were used by the British or Americans against their former owners, but the Romanians did, IIRC. There's also the famous story of the 109 which ended up with a stars and stripes on the side, flown with a passenger - Jack Cook's got a copy of a pic, IIRC.

Phil Butler's War Prizes is essential reading on this topic.

I'm not familiar with this particular photo.

Thomas · **Joined:** Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:14 pm **Posts:** 92

I'm interested on how they captured them...any where I can read about it?

Thomas · **Joined:** Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:14 pm **Posts:** 92

cool little video about captured German a/c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLW09CSQB-w&NR=1

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:03 pm

Thomas wrote:

I'm interested on how they captured them...any where I can read about it?

Black 6 was captured by over running the airfield - common in N Africa, and Sicily. Lots of Allied a/c were captured by the Axis in the same way. Some defected (The NASAM's Ju-88 and the RAF Museum's Ju 88 were both 'defections' the latter having some serious spy stuff around the story.) lost and so on.

Read about it? Butler's War Prizes. You can get it from your library on inter library loan. It's the book on the subject. Otherwise google.

Thomas · **Joined:** Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:14 pm **Posts:** 92

Now this makes me sick....

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

JDK wrote:

Thomas wrote:

I'm interested on how they captured them...any where I can read about it?

Black 6 was captured by over running the airfield - common in N Africa, and Sicily. Lots of Allied a/c were captured by the Axis in the same way. Some defected (The NASAM's Ju-88 and the RAF Museum's Ju 88 were both 'defections' the latter having some serious spy stuff around the story.) lost and so on.

Read about it? Butler's War Prizes. You can get it from your library on inter library loan. It's the book on the subject. Otherwise google.

The Germans did the same IIRC it was KG200 that flew allied A/C?

Thomas · **Joined:** Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:14 pm **Posts:** 92

JDK wrote:

Thomas wrote:

I'm interested on how they captured them...any where I can read about it?

Black 6 was captured by over running the airfield - common in N Africa, and Sicily. Lots of Allied a/c were captured by the Axis in the same way. Some defected (The NASAM's Ju-88 and the RAF Museum's Ju 88 were both 'defections' the latter having some serious spy stuff around the story.) lost and so on.

Read about it? Butler's War Prizes. You can get it from your library on inter library loan. It's the book on the subject. Otherwise google.

Thank You

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:14 pm

262crew wrote:

The Germans did the same IIRC it was KG200 that flew allied A/C?

I'm working from memory here... KG200 used heavies B-17s and B-24s as transports; there are stories about them as spyplanes, but that's mostly myth, IIRC. There's a famous book on KG200. It's essentially fiction.

There was the Curcus Rosarius (?sp) which flew allied (fighter, mostly) types around Luftwaffe bases for combat training.

Then there was the Reichlin testing station which undertook the testing of allied types. There were a number of allied types (Hurricane, Typhoon etc) which ended up in the Berlin Museum. The surviving PZL P-11c survived the war because it was captured in '39, then at the Berlin Museum, then shipped east in 44/45 to avoid destruction and then re-captured by the Russians.

For the Allied aircraft captured by Germans, Strangers in a Strange Land is the book.

I'm no expert on this area though.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:19 pm

One U.S. fighter group, I believe either in Italy or N. Africa had an FW 190 painted bright red and carrying the made up codes 'JJ" in black along with stars-n-bars

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

JDK wrote:

262crew wrote:

The Germans did the same IIRC it was KG200 that flew allied A/C?

I'm working from memory here... KG200 used heavies B-17s and B-24s as transports; there are stories about them as spyplanes, but that's mostly myth, IIRC. There's a famous fictional book on KG200. It's fiction.

There was the Curcus Rosarius (?sp) which flew allied (fighter, mostly) types around Luftwaffe bases for combat training.

Then there was the Reichlin testing station which undertook the testing of allied types. There were a number of allied types (Hurricane, Tempest etc) which ended up in the Berlin Museum. The surviving PZL P-11c survived the war because it was captured in '39, then at the Berlin Museum, then shipped east in 44/45 to avoid destruction and then re-captured by the Russians.

For the Allied aircraft captured by Germans, Strangers in a Strange Land is the book.

I'm no expert on this area though.

I believe you are correct, KG 200 used bombers as spy planes and as transports for dropping spy's. I remember hearing them using captured A/C as decoys. Possibly as a last ditch effort to shoot down anything they could?

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:28 pm

262crew wrote:

I believe you are correct, KG 200 used bombers as spy planes and as transports for dropping spy's. I remember hearing them using captured A/C as decoys. Possibly as a last ditch effort to shoot down anything they could?

The former - spy drops, I think may be correct. The latter, despite various accounts by allied airmen, of 'odd behaviour' by other bombers, I seem to recall there's no actual evidence for.

Start flying your enemy's aircraft in combat, and it gets very messy very quickly, despite how often it occurs in fiction.

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Allied Me-109? Seen this?

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