Warbird Information Exchange

There have been recent long threads concerning wrecks being salvaged and also dreams of finding sunken merchant ships in the deep with new aircraft still in their shipping crates.

By the sound of the conversation, MOST 'good' wrecks have been spoken for and the $$$ of raising or recovering cargo from the deep let alone locating it is cost prohibitive.

Along these lines, the following article got me thinking that with all the aircraft shipped to the different theaters of war, couldn't there have been a possibility of an aircraft being lost within the port while being transferred off ship? I'm sure this had happened and if so, would it have been recovered in a deep harbor port??? Yes I realize were still talking salt water, but if it was still packed in it's shipping crate that may have inhibited deterioration.



http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/P-51%2043-6623.htm

Just a thought folks!

regards,

t~

While I am sure that there must be instances of aircraft falling off ships while in port, and am also pretty certain that these would have either been recovered at the time, or destroyed in the dredging operations that every major harbor has to go through from time to time.

As for aircraft in containers falling off ships, I do recall reading that one of the original 100 P-40's destined for the AVG fell off it's ship in rough weather at some point shortly after the ship made it's departure from NYC. Don't know where exactly this happened though.

Cheers,
Richard

Along the same lines...

Has anything ever been determined conclusively concerning the 27 crated P-40's the freighter Seawitch attempted to offload at Tjilatjap, Java, at the end of February 1942? One source I've read assumes the aircraft were destroyed in their crates sometime during February 28th or March 1st, another suggests they were simply dumped overboard at port.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

I read somewhere that they had been destroyed, but can't remember where that was.
Then there is also the claims by the UK based 'Phoenix Foundation' that they have the rights to a 'ship in a Rusian lake full of Hurricanes'


Dave

Interesting topic folks:

Well if you have a feeling the planes are there; it's highly probable that they are.

With that said, as stated in another thread P-38's werer dumped in Naha harbor, Okinawa. P-47's were dumped at Anderson AFB Guam both incidents at the end of the war.

If you want to see for yourself, jump on a plane (make sure your inside the plane, wingwalking not allowed), and no kidding grab a wetsuit and take a look.

Chris

As long as we're throwing out possibilities here - someone should look into the Black Sea. If anything went in or down on this body of water it will be in the exact condition it was in when it was covered by water. The sea is anoxic (sp??) no oxygen at all in the bottom 2/3 of the water there. Robert Ballard's team found a Greek ship wreck with it's WOODEN MAST still standing!! Spiff eh? Now, there might not have been a whole lot of aerial activity near here but hey, you never know!

Tom P.

You do know, it's called studying records.

Has anyone been looking at the bottoms of those lakes (in that area of Russia)? I'm sure there are some great things in them, from both sides.

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www.tailhookstudio.com

There are bugger all lakes in that area plus it is quite populated. However a complete Ju 52 full of equipment was found in the Volga..which is a BIG river. Russian recovers mainly go the the Far North, many cold lakes and little population and a LOT of aerial activity.
The Baltic and the Gulf of Finland have far better conditions than the Black Sea, very cold ( several distructive organisms can't survive there) and the average depth of the Baltic is only 100m


Dave

As for the Gulf of Finland, I have seen estimates that suggest over 400
aircraft reside in its depths...one of those residents is purported to be
another Buffalo. If I remember correctly, Villard gave up the search for
a Buff there because they were getting so many sonar "hits" they couldn't
investigate them all!!

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

That's highly possible that the aircraft over there in the Baltic are well preserved. Did you see the deal on the discovery channel where they pulled up a perfectly preserved ship from the 1400's near Sweden!?

I'd bet, that the planes in the Baltic are well preserved.

Chris

In the vicinty of Volgograd. It was apparently hit on the supply run and came down on the partly frozen river and went through. I haven't heard anything further for a few years, but AFAIK it hasn't been recovered. Probably not desirable enough

Dave

Yeah..The entire load of Vodka and Caviar was destroyed....

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

I remember in the news a beer truck went throgh the ice and they spend several days recovering that.

That was acouple years ago

_________________
www.tailhookstudio.com

As a hint of what might be at the bottom of the Black Sea have a look here under "The Lost Cargo of the Santa Fe"

http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk/page3.html