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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:40 pm 
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The Martin Mars water bomber hired by the U.S. Forest Service to fight wildfires in California remains at Sproat Lake near Port Alberni, more than 10 days after it was set to begin work.

The 153-day contract went into effect June 15.

Owner Wayne Coulson said yesterday the Hawaii Mars has passed myriad airworthiness tests but has been snarled in last-minute red tape.

"The delays have been in Washington, D.C.," said Coulson. "The best way to describe it is politics."

He suspects other operators complained about Coulson's business being awarded the contract.

The federal director of aviation has reviewed the contract and final approval is pending, Coulson said.

"We thought we'd get it at 2 p.m. today and we did not get it ... so they said we'll get to the finish line on Monday," Coulson said.

Once everything is in place, the Martin Mars will make the eight-hour flight from Port Alberni to its summer base at Lake Elsinore in Southern California.

Fortunately, the California wildfire season has been delayed as well.

"There are no real fires right now," said Dennis Hulbert, regional aviation officer with the U.S. Forest Service, who attributed the delays to the fact that it's a new process. "We just want to make sure everything has been done well and appropriately. It's a new program for us and we're learning as we go."

Coulson is baffled that the contract has raised the hackles of competitors at this late stage.

"Because we went through the process and it was advertised publicly, we thought there would have been more written complaints. There was nothing as we breezed through and signed off on the contract.

"As soon as it became public that we were heading down here, all hell broke loose."

Coulson and his advance team are already in California awaiting the arrival of the water bomber. The costs stemming from the delay are covered by the U.S. Forest Service.

The Hawaii Mars was built as a troop carrier in the Second World War but now lays claim to being the largest water bomber in the world. High-tech improvements installed over the winter will mean the crews aboard the water bomber and its lead aircraft will be able to spot wildfires through dense smoke.



:(

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Water ... story.html


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:37 pm 
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That's not the first time that a non-us company had problem after win a contract against US companies...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Please pardon my ingnorance on this, but didn't the US government ground all older prop engine aircraft from doing any kind of fire bomber roles? I know all the PB4Y were grounded, the DC6 and 7 appear to be grounded, leaving only the Neptune and maybe a few Trackers flying.
So is there enough airtankers in existence with US companies to provide coverage necessary?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Well at least they aren't burning....YET......anyone really surprised by red tape? My favorite line was

"The costs stemming from the delay are covered by the U.S. Forest Service"

That is called TAX MONEY down the drain! No surprise there, just business as usual.

To bad it's not in Chicago, at least there you know who to bribe to get the job done!

If the AC has met all the aeronautical tests and measures, why is the FAA still goofing off? Something in the article missing? If it is a matter of contracts and policy, is not that more in the jurisdiction of the Forrest Department, or Dept of the Interior?

Wait till the fires do start, then it will be headlines
DC Fiddles While CA Burns


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 Post subject: Martin Mars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:45 am 
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Group,

You can bet when Calif starts burning, the red tape will go away. When there is enough heat, the politicians will get offf their a** and make it happen.

It looks bad when several thousand people loose their home, and something could have been done to prevent it.

Laterrrrrr
Avn-Tech
California


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:53 am 
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Holedigger -

I think it comes down to typical FAA bureaucracy. Past occasions that I'm aware of when things were sent to a local FSDO, the items got all but the final 1 or 2 signatures in a couple of days and then sat for several weeks for those to be applied and them to be fully approved. Coulson probably has a better idea of what's going on, but I would suspect that a lot of this is simply the usual FAA, get right to the last step or two quickly and then delay, delay, delay.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Just for the record,the piston engine air tankers for which the US Forest Service arbitrarily cancelled all contracts just as the 2004 fire season began were never "grounded" by anyone.That wasn't much comfort to the operators that were driven out of business,but it is a fact.Even the C-130A models were never grounded,they were just withdrawn from further consideration for US Forest Service contracts.There was an agenda involved,but the excuse used to justify the move was supposedly "safety".

At least two ex-tanker C-130A's are currently flying on government contracts involving tests of parachutes and avionics.Butler Aircraft's DC-7's are contracted as air tankers with the State of Oregon and one was contracted by the State of California last year.

Incidentally,I happened to see the Mars either flying or performing a very high-speed taxi (it indicated 99 knots) on Sproat Lake a few days ago on Google Earth using the AFF overlay.I have to admit that I hadn't realized where Sproat Lake was located prior to this.

Here is a wide view of Vancouver Island

Image

This one is zoomed in part way

Image

This is the mooring area on the lake.The orange C-130 icon is what the AFF Google Earth overlay uses to identify an active heavy air tanker

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:50 am 
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Where is the Mars today? CA is looking a bit hot and I have yet to see the Mars in action? Is she flying or still grounded?
Here is a link to a great photo gallery of the Mars. I would love to see her fly, she has got to be the biggest old beast still flying!

http://www.martinmars.com/gallery.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:06 am 
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The mars is active in California, not sure where it is today, but there has been quite a bit of media coverage.

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http://www.noozhawk.com/local_news/arti ... on_cachuma

http://www.santamariatimes.com/articles ... king12.txt


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:14 am 
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Good to hear! Guess I just haven't seen a clip of it. Quite a monster of a fire. Is the DC-10 waterbomber also into the battle?

I see the other heavy, the 747, is in action. All hands on deck!!
http://telstarlogistics.typepad.com/tel ... ebut-.html

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:53 am 
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Glad to see the Mars is helping out in CA, but lots of people in BC would like to see it back to fight fires here. It's been one of the worse fire seasons on record.

Quote:
Fires fought without Martin Mars water bombers
Darah Hansen, Vancouver Sun: Wednesday, August 5, 2009

It’s the worst fire season British Columbia has seen for years and the giant Martin Mars water bombers — among the largest flying boats in the world and the last Mars pair still in use — are nowhere to be seen.

One is grounded while undergoing heavy maintenance at its base in Port Alberni.

The other is on contract to the US Forest Service in southern California, where, coincidentally, there are few fires burning.

“It’s been really slow. We’re sitting in 105 F weather every day down there but there just hasn’t been much fire,” said owner Wayne Coulson.

It’s the first time in 49 years the massive water bombers have not been put to work helping to douse B.C.’s wildfires.

In that time, the aircraft — each one capable of scooping up more than 27,000 litres of water in a single load — has made over 4,000 drops on some of the province’s most remote terrain.

“We sort of let history speak for itself,” Coulson said of the bombers’ continued usefulness.

Coulson said he agreed to send the four-engine Hawaii Mars south of the border this summer after the province chose not to renew its contract with his Port Alberni-based company, Coulson Group.

“They [B.C. fire officials] felt they had ample aircraft for an average fire season,” he said of the decision.

Last year, the Hawaii Mars sat relatively idle in B.C. after a slow fire season. The aircraft was later dispatched to California in October to help suppress wild grass fires that at one point forced 500,000 people to flee their homes.

“If we hadn’t been released from the contract with the province last year, we wouldn’t have fought one fire,” Coulson said.

No one could have predicted the reverse would occur this year, he said.

Weeks of hot, dry weather this summer has resulted in hundreds of wildfires burning across the province.

“I’m sure if they [the province] could have, they would have made the necessary adjustments,” Coulson said of the contract. But, he added, “It’s one of those things.”

Ministry of Forests officials confirmed Wednesday it no longer holds a contract with Coulson to use the Martin Mars water bombers.

“In 2008, the Coulson Group asked the province if it could withdraw from the contract in order to pursue opportunities with the state of California,” a ministry representative wrote in an e-mail in response to The Vancouver Sun’s queries.

“Although highly recognizable, the Martin Mars water bombers have their disadvantages. They are less effective in higher-elevation, Interior operations or in areas that are a distance from a large body of water,” the e-mail stated.

Coulson said phones at his company have been ringing off the hook in recent weeks with callers curious to know where the flying boats are.

“At some point in time, whether as kids or as grown-ups, they’ve seen them flying,” he said.

The Hawaii Mars is stationed in Lake Elsinore in southern California, close to the Cleveland National Forest. A forest service spokesman said the aircraft remains on standby and, if needed, could be sent anywhere in the country to help battle forest fires.

The second water bomber, the Philippine Mars, will not be ready to fly again until the 2010 fire season following extensive maintenance and renovation, Coulson said.

dahansen@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Last edited by BLR on Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:55 am 
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HoleDigger...I saw a clip of the DC-10 on the NBC news the other evening, so they are using it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Our fires here in FL don't get nearly that bad as we don't have the mountains to build those Santa Anna winds. Though fighting fires in swampland is a different game altogether! It is a difficult juggling act of having enough waterbombers in the right place at the right time. They do cost a lot to operate, but they can really be useful.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:28 pm 
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YouTube has a good clip of the DC-10 (Tanker 910 and 911) and Mars (Tanker 223) in action at the Oak Glen III fire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DVxZwdAawc

And the Evergreen 747 Supertanker was also in action yesterday for the first time in the US... see the Fox 11 video at: http://www.examiner.com/x-11680-Wildfir ... rnia-fires

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 Post subject: Air Attack with 747
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:02 am 
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this is pretty cool...now they need to work with inflight slurry refills. We have the tools all the old aerial re-fuel tankers, we have the technology airforce 1 can take on re-fuel in flight, so why not a re-slurry program? well anyway its a cool video!

http://www.examiner.com/x-11680-Wildfir ... rnia-fires


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