Warbird Information Exchange

Interesting little note from AOPA Online...
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090624stealth.html?WT.mc_id=090626epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan

Robbie

Neat. I like the "The U.S. government has hidden a German-built prototype of the flying wing in a warehouse since World War II." I bet he wanted to add: "Right next to the Arc of the Covenant."

BTW, the Germans had a 'stealth bomber' in W.W.I...

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Wouldn't it be great to be turned loose in there for few days. Wonder what they have that they ain't telling anybody.

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tracers work both ways

I believe that the one stored was located at the SASM Garber facility at Silver Hill, MD. Has it been restored for the new museum yet?

The Ho.229 will I understand be getting into the restoration cycle fairly soon after the Phase II building is completed in 2011. It would ultimately be display at Udvar Hazy, in company with Horton 3 and Ho.6 gliders.

We all know that it has been a long wait, but the resulting restoration will be first-class. The airplane is apparently complete and fairly well preserved. One question that I think is still not resolved is whether the wings actually go with this fuselage. The wings and fuselage were found at two separate locations.

I have been beneath this fuselage, and as it is presently it is hard to see how the gear was supposed to retract. As I see it, the present gear may not have been intended to be included in the operational aircraft.

It will also be interesting to find out exactly what kind of operations systems are included in the current artifact. The aircraft was captured in a not-yet-completed state, with I think some post-war work done on it by the Gotha plant in Germany before being transported to the US.

One open question would concern whatever markings would be put on the restored aircraft. Perhaps something similar to the markings of the V2 prototype, which crashed after about 45 minutes of flight time? (the surviving example is the V3).

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Kevin McCartney

Are the marking on the aircraft not the original ones? Was the aircraft bare when it was found?

Hello again,

The Ho.229 was not unfinished, and thus was not painted. The markings on the current artifact are completely bogus, probably done in the US to present at some display after the war.

Another tidbit: I have not seen the National Geographic show, but the premise there - that the Horton Brothers build it as they did to give it "stealth" capabilities - is completely made for TV. The reason why the plane is made primarily of wood is that was the only material readily available late in the war, and also probably influenced by the glider-building experience of the designers. The Go.229 should not be expected to be any more stealth than the mostly-wood DH Mosquitos of the same era.

Asking if the Horton Brothers designed the airplane to counter RADAR is putting more modern knowledge into an earlier historical context. The premise is incorrect, and any stealth capabilities will be purely coincidental and not part of the design criteria. The Hortons to my knowledge did no experimentation on anti-RADAR technologies or designs. The all-wing design was an extension of their pre-war experiments with all-wing gliders.

In other words, the National Geographic show should be seen as typical television rather than something expected to provide much historical insight. Just my two cents...

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Kevin McCartney

I love how the article describes it as hidden in a warehouse.

I took th etour of the Garber facility decades ago and it was out in plain sight! So was the Enola Gay, even though the EG was in two parts at the time.

Yea, the whole video has a conspiracy Hanger-51 feel to it, does it not? The airplane is so interesting in its own right - showing plainly not only the technological sophistication but also the desperation of the Germans in the late-war - that having these supposedly smart engineers going through the charade of "stealth" in order to have a TV show is mind-boggling. The premise of the show is patently false.

We need perhaps to be reminded that National Geographic still insists that Byrd reached the real north pole (his expedition sponsored in part by the society that publishes NG) despite the considerable evidence to the contrary. Science, or history, should not be allowed to detract from a good story!

Another reminder of how important it is for things to be seen in the historiographical context. (historiographical, quite a word, eh?)

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Kevin McCartney

Thanks for the info, now it makes sense.

I wonder how long the Goverment has been hiding the other wooden wonder sitting next to the horton in the secret hangar?

I thought i read somewhere that the glue used on the 229's wing skins contained graphite powder which help in the radar absorbency. A similar glue was used on U boot periscopes. If this was done knowingly at the time (in both cases) or was a happy accident discovered later we may never know.

Ben

That is correct, some sort of carbon compound. Tests done at Northrop radar range using the frequencies of the Brit Chain Radar in use at the time suggeseted that approaching the English Coast from France flying at 550 mph (885 km/h) at 50 -100 feet (15-30 m) it would not have been visible to the radar, whilst the Luftwaffe’s standard fighters were visible up to 80 miles(128 km) away.
But as previously stated stealth was not the designers intentions as far as is recorded.
The woodwork of the original is appararantly not in good shape, but nothing the craftsmen at Garber cannot handle

Jesse C. wrote:


The "other wooden wonder" (the DH Mosquito, to the left of the Ho.229 in the opening frame of the video) was given to the Smithsonian in 1964, after finishing its military service; it was one of the last operational Mosquitos (operational here meaning military service).

As far as I know, it has always been in Garber storage. It is slated to go on display at UH, presumably in its late markings. Whether this means that it will go into the WWII display despite a later history (much as the P-61) or elsewhere I do not know. I would guess that it would go near the Lysander and Hurricane (which I think will be suspended from the celing as the Lysander is).

Does anyone know if the Horton 229 has been in continuous covered storage, or whether it was in outdoor crated storage for many years? The rusted through areas in the front of the aircraft suggest outdoor storage, which would be hard on the wood structure.

The Horton is such an interesting airplane, but how the Germans ever expected to produce such an aircraft before the end of the war is a good question. It would surely have taken way more than a year before becoming operational.

Also, I have always wondered how the Germans expected to be able to easily maintain or change the engines. The Jumos engines needed overhaul every ten hours! Me.262s, He.162s and Ar.234s had their engines in convenient pods, but the Horton had its engines within the wing. I don't see easy access from top or bottom. It has looked to me as if the wings were essentially built around the engines.

Also, the two engines are immediately adjacent to the cockpit and must have made for a warm environment. The V2 prototype had flights of circa fifteen minutes so this may not have been a serious issue, but would have on longer flights. It is still argued exactly what caused the crash of the V2 prototype; one engine failed which may have caused the pilot to lose control, but it is also argued that engine fumes may have obstructed the pilot's view or rendered him unconscious.

For all the futuristic qualities of the Ho.229, it is hard to imagine it actually having been effective as a war machine. Too many potential instability issues, production issues and so forth. That it was built at all has a lot to do with the Horton Brothers political connections and Goerings willingnes to be influenced by an attractive figure.

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Kevin McCartney

From looking at the promo for the show, it looks like someone built a FSM to test the stealth theories.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

why does the nose gear seem lower on the experimental one?? the original ho 229 had a tall nose gear

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!