P-51 Sunny VIII question...

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:04 pm

I was looking into this airplane's registration and I find a bit of confusion. In the registry it is listed as N10515 and in other places it is listed as N1051S

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry/p51-4511371.html
OR
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/survivors/pages/45-11371.shtml

Is this a typo in the registry?

Sully · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:12 pm

It's a typo.
N1051S is correct.

Sully

Holedigger · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:13 pm

According to the FAA the N1051S is a MAULE Model MXT-7-180A

The other does not show up as a registered Number. Hmmmmm

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Thanks Sully! I see the airplane is in your Avatar....were you connected with the airplane?

Curious.

and Holedigger...I am assuming the registration was released after they changed the Mustang reg to N51KF.

Thanks for the replies.
Z

Sully · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:22 pm

Yes.

Sully

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:32 pm

And....care to share a bit?

mrhenniger · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:35 pm

I was at the show in upper NY when it spun in. That is something I will NEVER forget.

Mike

mlenoch · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:46 pm

Mike:
Do you recall how it spun in? Was it during a turn? Did it roll into the turn or toward the outside of the turn as it began the 'spin'? Did it continue to roll untill ground impact?
(Since I teach Mustang maneuvering, I'd like to know/confirm/validate some of my teaching points.)
(Also, I did provide some minor post-crash comments to the FAA).
Thx in advance,
VL

richkolasa · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:43 pm

vlado wrote:

Mike:
Do you recall how it spun in? Was it during a turn? Did it roll into the turn or toward the outside of the turn as it began the 'spin'? Did it continue to roll untill ground impact?
(Since I teach Mustang maneuvering, I'd like to know/confirm/validate some of my teaching points.)
(Also, I did provide some minor post-crash comments to the FAA).
Thx in advance,
VL

I'm pretty sure that the late Bill Dodds had told me that he fell out of a loop. Either he or Dan Dameo was saying that it hit almost vertical, going in "to the wing-roots, like they usually do". Of course, it's been a while, so perhaps my memory is slightly off.

Rich

Jim Beasley · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:14 pm

I believe the pilot's name was George Krieger (sp?) and he crashed Sunny VIII when doing tailchase circuits behind Bob Tullius. He took off with full fuel (it had wet wings and held over 300 gallons), pulled too hard, stalled, and spun in. It was not a loop. Jim

mlenoch · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:05 am

Thanks Jim.
VL

mrhenniger · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 am

The two Mustangs (the other was Donald, now in Hendon) had completed a pass and were turning for another pass. I had looked away (was likely checking my camera) and when I looked up I saw the P-51 in a spin about 20 degrees nose down. I only saw about the last 400 feet of the fall and didn't realize what I was seeing until it disappeared behind the trees. There was no smoke. When I came to realize what was happenned I felt sick. Anyway... that is all that I saw. The FAA report will likely say more.

For pictures of Sunny VIII before that flight go to the second page of this photo album...
http://community.webshots.com/album/475022866munGmh

That was a bad year for airshows for met. Later that summer I was sitting on the rocks on the shore of Lake Ontario at Toronto. I watched the Nimrod go in. I saw the stall and had plenty of time to understand what was about to happen. It tooks a few weeks before the looping replay in my head of the sequence of events stopped.

Mike

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:39 am

Vlado and Jim, how much fuel do you all carry when you all go up for a display? Do you all carry different amounts for different events??

TIA,

Lynn

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:54 am

I don't know the pilot involved, his name is not even familiar. But if he had extra capacity tanks and was flying with full fuel,it may have been that he was going to depart after his flybys. It is pretty common when the airshow is furnishing fuel as part of your appearance, that you fill up and depart from the flyby rather than landing. I have no evidence and no facts of what happened in this case.

In my plane it is not as much of a problem, as it only holds 108 gal US., unless I had the drop tank on. I would almost always fill up internal not the drop tank, just in case we had to hold for a while which is common at Osh or Midland, or divert to another airport. Another thing, in some big shows, you are very busy, mostly looking outside for traffic,which can be anywhere and not always as briefed, so it is nice to know you have plenty of fuel and not be looking down for the fuel gauge. I try to take a brief glance at the engine instruments to see all is well, but mostly look outside.

If I was flying a solo display with acro, I might just fill the main and inboards, thus 80 gals. I'd guess guys with more fuel capacity like a P-51 might fly, then land and fill up before leaving, but at a big show like Oshkosh, that can mean a long delay, and getting into gen av traffic taxiing out.

mlenoch · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:03 am

I can do my full show with full fuel: wing tanks only at 92 gal. each (and baggage). With that, I need to set up with entry altitude at least at 3500' AGL, to have conservative margins. The reason for full fuel on some displays, is because at some locations I will leave the airshow site directly from the air to go home. Otherwise, less fuel means less weight and of course the airplane performs very nicely. Same margins and entry speeds and critical check points are flown. My goal is to fly a complete show at 3 Gs, using energy management with gentle, low drag pull ups. Plus, I'm using 46" or less for power. All this to conserve the airframe and powerplant.
I remember watching old Bob Hoover movies; I seem to recall he flew with 61" power and high G. Eight sided loops, square loops, vertical rolls and dirty rolls on takeoff need power and G. But engines and airframes were much cheaper then!
VL

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P-51 Sunny VIII question...

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