Keeping the Faith

wrenchturner · **Posted:** Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:09 pm

New post to follow
About getting new mechanics, stay tuned

Enemy Ace · **Posted:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:02 pm

And So?????????????? :rolleyes:

wrenchturner · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:13 pm

The post "Keeping the Faith" seems to get lost somewhere, everytime I post it it is gone.
So I will try again.
The question is asked with this post, where do we find new machanics, and how to train them.

flyboyj · **Joined:** Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:01 pm **Posts:** 157

I think there are plenty of people who want to get into this industry and there is still plenty of training resources available. Cost is an issue for schools but I think if someone has the desire and passion to work in this industry and take the good with the bad, there's still plenty of opportunities. BTW Jan 2010 - 30 years since I first got my A&P - no regrets.

wrenchturner · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:51 pm

As for myself, I've been at this (aircraft maint.) for 20 plus years, I started as a aircraft lineman, then
mechanics helper, finally as an apprentice.
As an apprentince I listened to every word the mechanics I worked for, followed thier lead and never
questioned thier judgement or decisions.
I studied everything I could get my hands on, purchased a complete A&P study course, read it once,
twice and three times.
It took me nearly five years of hard work, not only working ten or twelve hour days, but studying on my
own time at home.
These "Kids" now days feel that if they show up for work, when they do show up, should have thier A&P
handed to them on a Silver Platter...
Without having to do all the grunt work I use to do...
How can I train a young mechanic that I do not respect, this kid does not even pick up his own mess
in the shop, he's a slob, pig etc...
Trying to keep the faith, and pass on the trade.
Please NO responses that say "Oh that's how kids are these days"...
Thanks

flyboyj · **Joined:** Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:01 pm **Posts:** 157

wrenchturner wrote:

As for myself, I've been at this (aircraft maint.) for 20 plus years, I started as a aircraft lineman, then
mechanics helper, finally as an apprentice.
As an apprentince I listened to every word the mechanics I worked for, followed thier lead and never
questioned thier judgement or decisions.
I studied everything I could get my hands on, purchased a complete A&P study course, read it once,
twice and three times.
It took me nearly five years of hard work, not only working ten or twelve hour days, but studying on my
own time at home.
These "Kids" now days feel that if they show up for work, when they do show up, should have thier A&P
handed to them on a Silver Platter...
Without having to do all the grunt work I use to do...
How can I train a young mechanic that I do not respect, this kid does not even pick up his own mess
in the shop, he's a slob, pig etc...
Trying to keep the faith, and pass on the trade.
Please NO responses that say "Oh that's how kids are these days"...
Thanks

I won't say "Oh that's how kids are these days" but I could close my eyes and reminisce 30 years ago and remember some guy in his 50s saying the same thing. Now we're there....

At the same time I've had similar and total opposite experiences of what you mention. I did 3 years in an A&P school and got my "A" license first. I was able to work part time while in school to get some experience but always realized that in this business I will be learning every day.

BTW - I do agree 100% about shop cleanliness. I've fired people who won't clean up after themselves.

warbird_patrick · **Posted:** Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:13 pm

I received my A&P two years ago after six long years of college for the BA degree in Aviation Maintenance with my A&P certifications. I am still going to school for the masters in Aerospace Engineering. You really got to put the effort into it if you want it. This was published in the paper and think it fits this thread well:

http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/ ... with-video

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

wrenchturner wrote:

How can I train a young mechanic that I do not respect, this kid does not even pick up his own mess in the shop, he's a slob, pig etc...

Take a look at your vetting process & stop hiring idiots? :wink:

engguy · **Joined:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:45 am **Posts:** 442

The young ones nowadays are all mommy babys. Mommy still has to do everything for them. First hand experience here, I have a step son, that is a 28 year old, 5 year old. He hasn't worked a full month of a 40hour week in his life. And is an educated idiot. You can teach a monkey to do anything I guess, but when it comes to using it for something constructive naaa can't do it.
I think the most important quality missing these days in the young ones is simple common sense. And wow talk about a me generation. Sorry I gota vent someplace.

warbird_patrick · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:37 am

engguy wrote:

I think the most important quality missing these days in the young ones is simple common sense. And wow talk about a me generation. Sorry I gota vent someplace.

Very true, well said.

Patrick

Django · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:13 pm

It's not just A&Ps... we have the exact same problem when we hire "kids" at our hot rod shop.

Bug_racer · **Joined:** Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:59 pm **Posts:** 41

I see this all the time in the auto industry here . Kids these days dont see a job as a career . It seems like they treat it as a paper run . Here one minute gone the next . They lack respect towards any authority . Usually damage equipment and shrug their shoulders , and spend their spare time getting wasted . Then I see people posting up things like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiB_Aagx1YQ . All scare tactics , the way I see it if we have so much more information being generated why do we have so little new inventions ? Like the last big thing to really come out is the Ipod , and all that is is a hard drive . Touch screens , digital cameras , mobile phones etc all came from the late 70's early 80's . In the last 10 years I dont think anything has come out that really excites me . But anyway , good luck finding a suitable applicant , Ive given up and just work on my own , well , for the moment anyway

cott · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:50 pm

I agree with most of what's been said. I am ever so slowly working toward my A&P, under the tutelage of the guys at EAA. Some of the tech school kids who come in and volunteer scare me. But, frankly, so do some of the A&P's that I have met that are from the older generation.

One thing that does bother me: the tech school counts time spent in class as time toward the 1800 hours of working on airplanes. I'm logging hours that I actually spend working on airplanes toward that requirement, while some of these yahoos are logging time in their English class. That bothers me a bit... but I think I'll be in better shape in the long run.

Anyhow, it's my goal to start my own warbird shop. If any of you guys have advice, I'd sure be interested in hearing it!

Thanks.
Chris

Enemy Ace · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:41 pm

A new shop employee is a blank canvas. It is up to you to lead, inspire and motivate such people if you care to. I personally always was appreciative of the great people I have known/ worked with and under in the past. I try and be a composite of all the good things. When I had my shop I was very aware that just like in a military unit, Leadership was needed to motivate the troops and accomplish the mission of keeping airplanes flying.
A new employee regardless of their age is going to look to those already established at the shop to get a feel for how things are there. Sure they will not do things the way you want at first but you need to (Firmly) keep reminding them of the standard until they get it. I found that praising the good things someone did was actually a better tool for getting them to straighten up and fly right than getting on their case all the time about what they did wrong.
Somebody that just doesn't give a durn on the other hand will not be there long, you just have to wait for them to move on.

wrenchturner · **Posted:** Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:55 pm

Some posts have stated that we have to be more careful with the hiring and vetting process.
I totally agree, yet that is not my department/job, it is the DOM (director of maintenence) that
does or did that.
If it were up to me I'de put any apprentice mechanic on a 60 day probation and put them on
notice from day one that they are only "TEMPS", until they can prove themselves, for example
taking the initiative to clean a hanger and or an aircraft, take out the garbage etc. etc.
without having to be told to do so.
Also as for the training process, that too is not my department, that also belongs to the DOM,
or at least I've been told.
If the "Molding Process" is bad from day one and continues from there on, bad habits have been
formed which at some point there may be no turning back.
When I do try to give this young man some positive training/input, I'm rudely told by him that
I'm not his boss.
So I will let him continue with what he is doing until something goes wrong, like breaking
something, something being assembled wrong etc.
Then I get the wrath of the DOM for not whatching this guy...
"Trying to Keep the Faith"...

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