F8F Bearcat vs Zero, ME109, FW 190 How would it have done?

[sgt hawk]

I have always been curious as to how well the Bearcat would have done against axis aircraft. I know there were a few squadrons being
deployed when hostilaties ceased, but I have always been interested as to what the outcome could have been. I tried to do search on this site to see if this subject had ever been covered but I'm pretty much a "Puter" dumy and couldn't find anything. If it's been covered point me in that direction or feel free to comment.

Thanks, Greg Hawkins

[SaxMan]

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've gleaned here and there, the F8F was reportedly the first carrier based aircraft that could out-turn a Zero. I also had a friend tell me the F8F borrowed a lot of design cues from the FW 190.

It's really not a fair comparison as both the Zero and the 109 were obsolete by the time the Bearcat made its appearance and the FW-190, with the possible exception of the "Dora" models were well-outclassed by the Allied fighters by 1945. Maybe F8F versus Ta152 or the Ki-84 George would have been more of an apples-to-apples

[agent86]

I have read the F6F hellcat was the first that could out turn a zero.The Bearcat woulda had them all for lunch.FW 190 mighta been a handful however.

[Mike]

I can't imagine any scenario where a Bearcat would have come up against a 190 or 109, so the surely the comparison is irrelevant?

I saw a cool dogfight between F-14s and a couple of Zeros once, though (does anyone else remember 'The Final Countdown'?)

[sgt hawk]

The brit's were flying both the F6F and F4U and I believe a British Navy F6F got a 109. The possibilities did exist! Yes, the Zero had been around with limited upgrades since 39. The Dora 190 was an improved model of the FW, but I have never got a breackdown of it's capabilities. The window was small as operational jets were coming on line. Alot of if's and's or butt's, still curious though.

[lmritger]

As a diehard 109 fan and fairly knowledgeable Luftwaffe student, I would say the Bearcat would come out **EXTREMELY** well against either of those aircraft. The only variant of either type which might compete on anything like a level playing field might have been the short-wing Ta 152C... the combination of 2K horsepower, a very light but strong fuselage, stubby wings, ridiculous climb rate and incredible maneuverability would spell doom for all but the most experienced Luftwaffe pilots. It was a full generation newer than the 190, and arguably two generations newer than the 109 (based on the rapid pace of development at that time)... it would be like bringing a nuke to a gunfight.

That's just acknowledging reality.

Lynn

[Dudley Henriques]

I have always been curious as to how well the Bearcat would have done against axis aircraft. I know there were a few squadrons being
deployed when hostilaties ceased, but I have always been interested as to what the outcome could have been. I tried to do search on this site to see if this subject had ever been covered but I'm pretty much a "Puter" dumy and couldn't find anything. If it's been covered point me in that direction or feel free to comment.

Thanks, Greg Hawkins

Your FINAL answer will ALWAYS depend on EXACTLY who is flying each aircraft.

Dudley Henriques

[JDK]

Your FINAL answer will ALWAYS depend on EXACTLY who is flying each aircraft.

And to add to that salient point, bear in mind that the Axis flying training systems were basically shot by 1944, so apart from the remaining overworked Experten and Japanese aces, the majority of Axis pilots were unable to get anything like the best out of their aircraft, while Allied pilots were generally very highly trained and skilled even if relatively inexperienced - while also a lot more Allied aces were surviving than Axis.

It would've done like a Hellcat+, in that while the Hellcat was an effective aircraft flown by capable pilots, one element of its success was the start of the decline in Japanese pilots. Not to detract from the ability, sacrifices or efforts of the Hellcat pilots at all, but the Bearcat would've done the same and more so - God is on the side of the big battalions.

Commander Eric 'Winkle' Brown is a qualified test pilot who flew all of the listed types during and just after W.W.II and wrote up his views of their abilities in his books. His would be the only published period test pilots view on all those machines, if you really want to know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_%28pilot%29

HTH

[Stoney]

In the movie 'The Final Countdown' those were hollywood Zeros, (T-6s) and if you look real close you will see the F-14 stall and start to spin.

[JOMiller]

PAX river actually conducted a series of fighter vs fighter
as part of their eval program both during and after the war.
I've not seen anything in print about it like exists for the
MiG exploitation program at Groom Lake. My knowledge
of it comes from Cook Cleland who did a lot of the eval
work. He said the Zero was no match, but the Tony came
down to the skill level of the aviators. He never mentioned
the Greman fighter being evaluated against the F8F, although
he did have time in most types. Don't remember him
talking about the George.

[agent86]

one overlooked fact is also the difference between the gasoline the US had and what was available to the axis towards the end of war.We produced the best fuel par none.it was "Rocket fuel" This enabled our big bore engines to produce incredible amounts of horsepower.Germanys Gasoline was mainly synthetic made from coal at this time and was about the same octane as the 87 octane you filled your KIA with this morning and this was on a good day.Japans access to oil from the Dutch east indies she stole from the dutch was pretty much rusting on the ocean floor and her gas was about the same octane as the fuel you fill your Zippo lighter with.Big bore engines need lotsa high octane gas and only we had it. ever filled your twin turbo ferrari F-40 with 87 octane?dont ever try to.

[mazdaP5]

I've read that when the bearcat pilotts took up mock dogfights with P-51's of the aaf, the Bearcat more often than not came out on top. I think that was in the squadron book.

[sgt hawk]

Don't you just love this! I got octane differences, I got trained pilot differences, I got situatioanal differences. The bearcat (to me) is the ultimate combustion engine fighter plane of that era. The Mustang and Spitfire evolved to the point of maximum performance and capability as a fighter. They had no competition in terms of their records scores. The Bear never got that opportunity. Then I think of "Rare Bear" and the "Reno Races". Come on guys! Give me YOUR oppinion! Deployed earliar this one would have been a A$$ kicker!

[JOMiller]

ULTIMATE indeed..... I once heard Ralph Parr discussing mock combat
with an F8F. He said it was like being on a middle floor in a high-rise
watching the elevator going up and down. WHAT A COMPARISON to
the pre-eminant piston engine fighter od all time!

FLY NAVY,
Owen

[JDK]

Think you missed one. But the following link (for warbird, not service examples) seems to be what your after.

http://fighter-collection.com/duel.pdf