Warbird Information Exchange

Hi guys,

I'm looking to find a couple of B377/C-97 aircrew to ask a few questions of regarding flight handling of the aircraft. There's been some discussion in a flightsim forum I visit occasionally and we're trying to figure out some things about how the plane actually handled, especially when it comes to coordinating turns and aircraft tendencies with engine(s) out.

Please PM me if you can help provide some answers because the data we have found is kinda scarce in this field.

Thanks!

-Chris

You need to get a hold of Bob Kelly at Neptune, he used to fly the C-97 that Hawkins & Powers used to operate as an air tanker.
Scott........

Scott,

Thanks for the lead. I'm also waiting for John (B29FltEng) to get back to me as well. Won't hurt to get more than one response.

Thanks!

-Chris

I work with a gentleman that was a Boomer on a KC-97. Not sure if he would be able to give a pilot's perspective if that's the sort of thing you're looking for, but I'd be happy to relay any questions you have to him.

Greg

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Greg, thanks. I'll get back to you if anything crops up that he might be able to help on (which he may be because there's some other discussions that have started that may benefit from that viewpoint). These first questions though really need the flight deck viewpoint because it deals with some stuff that's not really in the manuals (that I've been able to look at) but a pilot or FE can probably describe in a way that we can use in the discussion.

I work with a fellow who was a crew chief on KC-97's up until they retired them from ANG service. I'll be glad to pass along any specific questions. I think he still has a pile of manuals and such too

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Lest Hero-worship raise it's head and cloud our vision, remember that World War II was fought and won by the same sort of twenty-something punks we wouldn't let our daughters date.

I've got about 500 hours in C97...Kc-97 aircraft from back in 1954-1957. Most of it in the F or G models. It was a nice aircraft to fly. Much lighter on the controls than the B-29 although you still had to work at it. Alot depended on the gross weight at the time. At the heavy (170-175K) weights, it was hard work but at the lighter weights 155K or thereabouts it flew fine. The F model seemed to be lighter on the ailerons due to the lack of external wing tanks. They all flew a little differently, eg #377 would roll easily to the left but took alot of persuasion to roll right which makes for interesting flying on instruments only. "G" model roll rate was slower when the external tanks were full. During Air Refueling, it was the common practice for the co-pilot to fly the airplane since he had a larger and more sensitive horizon and a large N-1 compass readout. A/R required very small and smooth control movements to avoid unnecessary disconnects from the reciever aircraft..... followed by unkind words from the reciever! Some of the B-47 refueling IP's actually tried to instruct us on how to fly the tanker from his 'vantage point in the back seat of the B-47'. Like telling us to use the autopilot instead of hand-flying the aircraft! That was a no-no... period. The $0.49 autopilot we had was basically a wing leveler and pitch holder and was useless for anything precise.

As the reciever approached the tanker to start the hook up, a bow wave from the nose of the B-47 would gently push the tail of the 97 upward. This had to be anticipated to make for smooth hookups. Any turns had to be announced and very gentle bank angles were the rule.

Engine out flight, again, depended on how heavy you were. As far as coordination goes, all turns in those piston engine days were coordinated unlike today's jets when the only time you use the rudder is during engine out operations. The 97 had a hydraulically boosted rudder which helped alot on engine out operations. One thing the 97 had going for it was the 59B model of the R-4360. In the 3 years I was involved, I never heard of any power loss on take-off but after the first power reduction, all bets were off. If the engine produced predicted torque pressure at the beginning of takeoff, it was a good one.

Hope I didn't bore you.

Jack Frost

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It's what you learn after you think you know it all, that counts.

Jack, thanks for the info. I'm going to forward you what I sent John as well as you touched on most of the points, but there's a few I'd like to have some more elaboration on.

I think the more responses I get the more we'll get a "full picture" of how the plane handles as each person, especially with those airplanes, saw a little bit different in each airframe they flew, so the more information we get, the better the result since things changed so much throughout the life of these aircraft and each airframe apparently developed quite a character for itself as the pressurization cycles accumulated on the massive airframes. I have entries from several B377 retrospectives by crew about how each airplane they flew had totally different habits from the others as they aged (similar to reports from quite a few SR-71 pilots about their airplanes).

Thanks for the response everyone, it helps those of us who never got to experience these beautiful engineering marvels.