WWII Sub USS Lagato wreck and a P-38 discovered!

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:53 am

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&c ... arine_dc_1

http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050623.html

Largarto info:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08371.htm

http://www.thaiwreckdiver.com/wreck_lis ... _submarine

The first article mentions the P-38

Quote:

MacLeod, who said he had also just discovered a Lockheed P38 Lightning

Anyone aware of British wreck diver Jamie MacLeod?

regards,

t~

Waltz41 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:51 pm

I saw this today too, good post. The way he describes it, taken from the article

"It looks to me like it's intact and it's sitting upright on the bottom in very clear water, so you can get a good idea of what it looks like," he said. "Everything is still on it -- all the armaments, the brass navigation lights. It's beautiful."

...seems like it could be one that is brought out and saved. Who knows......I'd just like to see some pics! Anyone have any other info on this?

brian

airnutz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:20 pm

I've been looking for photos of her where she lies..but no joy. As for
recovering her..It'll never happen! She is a tomb of the lads who went
down with her. Cases like this are the complete basis of the NHC's inane
policy on other Navy materiel.

I'm not saying I necessarily believe in this policy. If they recovered the
sailors and returned them to their families it may give comfort to have them home. Lagarto is in very shallow waters and it would be doable to
bring them back up. I think the Navy will enter the wreck at some point
because of the ease of access. Since she is intact, that would suggest she
has live torpedoes etc. onboard. In this day and age, I don't think the US
would allow that to continue. It would be a helluva a job to sink her again
in deep water in order to get her out of the reach of scavengers! Whatever
happens, how the Navy responds will be interesting.

As for recovering Lagarto for display...I think it is unlikely...the Navy
doesn't have the resources to take care of their current artifacts. The
trustees of the Navy boats and ships can barely maintain the ones they
have now. One more would be ludicrous.
Just my 2 cents.

O.P. · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:45 pm

Hi Airnutz, Brian!

I'm not sure, but I think Brian was talking about the P-38. And I think the author was talking about the boat.

As for recovering the boat, I don't know. I guess my first reaction would be to leave it alone (I'm an ex boat sailor like Airnutz), but then, I guess I'm being a hypocrite when I say it's ok to retrieve an underwater airplane with the pilot still in it.

My small mind is kinda having a moral dilemma. Is there more "sanctity" to an object, when more people died in it?

I gotta think about this for awhile.

Orvis

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:42 pm

On the "thaiwreckdiving" link, scroll down just below the Lagarto article and there's info and coordinates on the P-38 - sitting upright, props missing, too covered in fishing nets to see the cockpit...

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:58 am

According to a website, the following is a sidescan image of the sub:

I guess it looks like a sub.?

regards,

t~

Warhawk · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:31 pm

Looks like a freighter to me. Awful wide beam and rounded stern for a Balao class sub.

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:50 pm

Ditto here...looks like they got their images mixed. THAT image doesn't
look very intact for a Sub and it's not lean as far as Balao hulls go.

Originalboxcar · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:44 pm

That's what I kinda thought. Wonder why the photos are slow in coming, I mean you know they brought a camera with them on a 225' dive! :roll:

The suggested site lists 3 side scans altogether, but none look like a sub, especially the first one. More like a B-26 Martin.

http://www.thesubreport.com/lagartoscan

regards,

t~

Warhawk · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:07 pm

You might be able to make a case for scan #2 being a sub, but it would be a shaky case. Scan one is obviously an aircraft and scan three is a cargo vessel of some sort, as i stated earlier.

I don't know what they have been smoking, but I wish they would pass it around so we could all get going.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

originalboxcar wrote:

More like a B-26 Martin.

Or a Privateer? :-)

#1 looks a bit far outboard for a twin.

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:13 pm

#1 looks more like a C-130 that has lost its #2 engine. Look how far back the wing is on the fuselage and how short the outer wing panels are compared to the outbard engine nacelles.

#2 scan is of a different scale. Could we be seeing the conning tower and the shadow to the left and right the pressure hull ?

#3 looks like a freighter but if the hull is buried, it too could be the conning tower .

Without knowing the scales of the different shots its difficult to judge. I would guess that in 250 ft #3 would give you that size picture with that kind of area coverage if the sonar was up near the surface in look down mode. But usually the sonar units are towed much deeper so I would expect a larger more defined picture of a smaller search area.

Dan Johnson II · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 1:49 am **Posts:** 659

The plane looks like a B24. That would make some sense I think too.

Dan

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:57 pm

Dan, the vertical is a single tail. I'm not sure the outer wings are long enough for B-24 or PB4Y.

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:58 pm

After reading the material yet again, I now see what OP was referring to in
trying to explain Brian's reference! I was thinking,"doesn't Brian realize
P-38's don't have brass running lights"? No worries...

As for all the speculation about the images represent...remember they
originally went to determine why there were so many fishing net snags.
Living on the salt-shore, as I do..leave a crab trap in the water for a
month and see how much barnacles and stuff attach themselves to it.
Imagine Lagarto snagging the later synthetic nets..which take ages to rot
in addition to all the biologics growth and the image that mess might
return? What may look interesting to a salvor, may look like crap to us.

This is an image of the S-5(SS-110) which went down off Delaware in 1920
after a failed salvage tow after a near-sinking(crew survived)..this is what
we're looking for expecting to "see" Lagarto...
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0811004.jpg

Now, here is another image of a scan of S-5, but check out the shadow
trick of a destroyer or a destroyer escort...
www.navsource.org/archives/08/0811002.jpg
Weird, huh? How did that happen? The S-Boats had sleek unencumbered
superstructures and hulls! Also, it appears that the way the sidescan 'wave
or beam' strikes the target so obliquely that a serious distortion develops
as a result in the "shadow"?

Here is an image I dug up of a Balao-class conning tower with crew and
40mm,20mm, & 5" deck-guns for size reference(sisterboat USS Billfish)
www.navsource.org/archives/08/0828605.jpg
Coool Guns..I want one of each!

I was going to use the previous pic to show RickH that the conning tower
appearing image would be wrong for the Balao type..but now I think I
see it as he sees it. But I would expect to see one of the deck-guns.
McLeod says it's all there intact. It'll be interesting to see what he means
by intact.

They did state that are revisiting the P-38 to cut away the netting and
investigate and photo it..as well as the Lagarto.... this month. So we may
not have long to wait for photos of either!

ps
Looked like a Privateer to me too the moment the image gelled!

pps
Sorry Scott about the Boat-talk....I've been asked what it was like to be
on a sub and I reply..It's like being in an airplane, which flys thru really
thick air..and if you jump out, you hope you fall up! (I know it's tenuous...
at best, I had to try the hovercraft defense.)

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WWII Sub USS Lagato wreck and a P-38 discovered!

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