skull discovered at pearl harbor may be of japanese origin

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:15 pm

a dredging crew dug up a skull from the bottom of pearl harbor & it is believed to be of japanese origin of a pilot who participated in the attack on 12 / 7 / 41, according to archaeologist jeff fong of the naval facilities engineering command pacific. he said early analysis has made him 75 % sure that the skull belongs to a japanese pilot. the items found with the skull provided the clues such as scraps of metal, forks, & a coca cola bottle have determined it is from the 1940's. 55 japanese airmen were killed & 29 of their aircraft were shot down during the attack. it was april 1st when the dredged items from the water were laid out to dry over night. the skull remains intact even though it was excavated with giant cranes & shovels. the joint pow / mia accounting command charged with identifying americans killed in action but were never brought home, has been asked to determine who the skull belongs to. the cranium has been turned over to the command's lab for examination of dental records & dna by the lab's director & a forensic anthropologist. obviously dredging has stopped. the national park service's chief historian for pearl harbor said experts know enough about the specific location where japanese planes went down in the attack & that they might be able to match the skull to a crew member. no japanese remains have been found at pearl harbor since ww2.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:02 pm

Fascinating, but considering the number of ethnic Japanese living in the Islands it might be difficult (if not impossible) to determine that the skull was not that of a local fisherman. Of course I'm sure the identities of unaccounted-for Japanese casualties from the raid is well documented. If they can get some viable DNA from the skull, there are likely still living relatives in Japan for a comparison.

SN

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:14 pm

steve, yes there are plenty of "gray areas" to be explored but i can't see a japanese out fishing on a u.s. navy base with a bottle of saki!! :wink:

the forensic team is also going to confer with the japanese government's consulate in hawaii, as well as having other agencies such as the naval criminal investigative service (ncis) look into the mystery.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:56 pm

I wasn't sure where in the harbor the skull was found, and remains can drift on currents for quite awhile before settling in a final spot. I live not far from Lake Michigan, where remains of drowning victims sometimes turn up months or even years later, often far from where they went into the water. Of course, that's a completely different environment (cold fresh water vs. tropical salt water) and the Great Lakes are well known for preserving organic materials (and airplanes) that quickly deteriorate in tropical oceans.

If anybody can ID the remains, it will be the lab in Hawaii. Some years ago I read a book called "A Missing Plane," which detailed the discovery of a B-24 wreck in New Guinea back in the 80s. The plane had flown into a mountain, and all the recovery expedition was able to find of the crew were hundreds of bone fragments. The plane was on a transport run, and there were 22 men onboard. Still, the lab was to sort them out, and for the most part determine which fragments went with which skeleton, and which belonged to which crew member. Mostly of the IDs were made through forensic analysis..they only had to resort to DNA in a couple of cases. In the end, each family got to give their loved one a proper burial, more than 40 years after they were declared MIA.

SN

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:28 pm

yea steve i can relate to your post. i live 12 miles from lake erie, & could drive a golf ball to the lake from my store in vermilion ohio in three strokes. you make very valid points. fresh vs salt water have different quirks as to currents etc.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:54 pm

a little p.s........... the honolulu police was contacted to verify if there was any missing persons reports on file with that agency. they've methodically & responsibly covered all bases. i just don't know why the info came out now via the associated press 3 months after the discovery.

Mark_Pilkington · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:32 am

I must have missed the clue in the article? but what points to the skull being Japanese?

ie dental work etc, surely there is a greater likelihood of a US Navy casualty of the attack falling overboard and the remains drifting and settling elsewhere in the Harbour?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

JohnB · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:50 am

I also wonder about why the archaeologist thought it was from a Japanese pilot. Seems like a bit of a stretch unless it was recovered from and area where one or more Japanese planes were known to have crashed in the attack or some other evidence (damage consistent with a crash, bullet hole, clothing, stuff too unseemly to mention, etc)

As has been pointed out, there are lots of ethnic Japanese on the islands.
While it certainly could be a pilot lost on Dec 7, 1941, the odds are against it unless there is more to the story.

As an aside, any biological anthropologists out there?
I've long wondered how or if they could differentiate Japanese remains from Chinese, Korean, or ethinic Hawaiian from the same period.
I'm too lazy to go back to university to find out.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:35 am

i've pondered all those same questions, such as could it be a u.s. sailor's skull. when you factor in 2400 u.s. servicemen killed, 900 of which are entombed in the uss arizona. talk about odds!!

but, who knows?? i'm no detective or coroner, but does an asian skull have the same attributes as a caucaison one??

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:37 am

Every ethnic group has a distinctive facial bone structure. For a forensic anthropologist differentiating between Japanese and Caucasian should be relatively easy. Getting a positive ID, now that's another story. The AP story said that the authorities had been keeping a lid on the discovery, so they could keep the site secured while conducting the on-site investigation (doesn't mention if it was on Navy property or not.)

I'll definitely be following this story!

SN

StangStung · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:50 am

Could someone who's seen it post a link to the article here?

Django · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:51 am

I agree it seems hard to believe it could be one of the IJN pilots, but seems like they seem pretty confident.

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:17 am

Here is a link to one of the articles:
http://www.military.com/news/article/sk ... arbor.html

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Here is the link to the story I was sent----the accompanying photo has NOTHING to do with the facts of the story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43834579/ns ... ld-war-ii/

Personal/professional opinion....the story is POORLY written.

If Bob Ballard had found a can of Tab sitting on top of the Titanic boiler that he found....that DOESN'T mean they were drinking Tab on the night the ship went down......

What do FORKS have to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor and Japanese pilots!?!?!?

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 365

JohnB wrote:

Seems like a bit of a stretch unless it was recovered from and area where one or more Japanese planes were known to have crashed in the attack or some other evidence (damage consistent with a crash, bullet hole, clothing, stuff too unseemly to mention, etc)

For some reason I can't find the article that I saw this morning about it, but it stated that the location of the harbor where the skull was found correlates to a spot where eyewitnesses saw a low flying Kate hit by a shell from USS BAGLEY (DD 386). The witnesses had stated that when the 5inch shell hit the aircraft, the plane pretty near stopped flying right then and there and bodies of the crew were observed to have been ejected from the aircraft. If that is correct, they probably recovered the wreckage of the aircraft itself post-attack but bodies would have been left behind.

I'll keep looking for the article.

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