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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:34 pm 
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http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... ice-110920

They had a great location.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:05 pm 
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As the Executive Director of another Canadian Aviation Museum I would ask no conclusions be drawn until the facts are out.

History, Heritage and Museums, other than government funded/operated, are at risk Internationally for reasons ranging from land values to lack of active volunteers, lack of reasonable funding to mismanagement.

I have NO IDEA what has happened in Toronto but considering all the factors that come into play until the facts come out no one knows what is happening but those directly involved.

That said this should be a warning, most museums run on the ragged edge and the difference between open and close can be very small...yet without them the history is lost and we are the ones short changed.

Tom Hinderks
Executive Director
Alberta Aviation Museum
Edmonton Aviation Heritage Society

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:47 pm 
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Hopefully this isn't the end of the museum.

The Canadian Museum of Flight, the museum that I grew up with since I was 8 years old, was expropriated from our original homesite in 1994 (give or take a year). the CMF(T) was forced to find a new homesite, and after a long and hard search and a long and hard fundraising effort, a small hangar facility at Langley Airport was selected as the new site. The CMF (now with no 'T') is still at Langley, and it has been a good home for us.

I truly hope that the Canadian Air and Space Museum is able to come up with a quick, and good solution to their situation. Nothing is impossible, but very often things can be really hard. I hope they pull through.

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David M


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:43 pm 
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Isn't this the same museum that had a couple He162s that had been recently sold off?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:13 pm 
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I don't think we are getting the full story - it'll be interesting to see what shakes out.

Bear in mind that the museum is in a very historic aeronatic site, unfortunately also one with a land value in relatively central Toronto.

gflinch wrote:
Isn't this the same museum that had a couple He162s that had been recently sold off?

No. This is a volunteer museum in Toronto, the one you are thinking of is the Canadian national collection in Rockliffe, near Ottawa.

One of the national collection's two He 162s was traded for a Bristol F2B Fighter, and AFAIK they retain the other 162. The traded 162 has been recently sold / traded again, I believe.

HTH.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:32 pm 
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Is some big shot prairie oil guy talking up an NBA franchise? That's usually what happens, the city fathers get all sweaty and excited over getting a major sports franchise and then zero in on the biggest piece of dirt with the (as they see it) least attractive draw on it, do an eminent domain, plow the place flat, put up an overpriced but shoddy/gaudy structure, get the franchise and things are swell for about 8 to 10 years, then the owner goes broke or his business falls off, the team gets blamed for the strong smell of overpaid underproducing players, ticket sales flounder and it all gets sold to the next clown with a big checkbook and zero foresight.

I've seen it here in Seattle, the Supersonics get sold to Okie City, the Mariners couldn't beat the cross town YMCA softball team (and Mr. Nintendo who owns the team has NEVER attended a game), and if I was P. Allen, I'd pay off every non producing idiot on the SeaHacks (which would leave about three people) and tell the rest of them to go sit on a beach until their contracts are up.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:52 pm 
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JDK wrote:
I don't think we are getting the full story - it'll be interesting to see what shakes out. HTH.


I think this is a very accurate statement and it will be interesting to see how things shake out.

But athis point...

I believe there are (3) issues here that need looked at.

- The hangar housing the Museum should be a National historic site, it is the place that brought us everything from Tiger and Fox Moths, the Canadian Mossies, the Chipmunk to the Beaver, Otter, Caribou, Buffalo and Twin Otter. The place where STOL became practical and operated by Canadian greats such as Punch Dickins and Russ Bannock, gentlemen that changed the aviaiton world.

- This event highlights how we treat our history in general and our aviation history in particular. We support the arts but not our Canadian Heritage. We support the Multicultural Heritage of New Canadians (which I do not have a problem with) but not the Canadian Heritage that built the country and its ability to support Multiculturalism.

There is something wrong with this picture...we don't teach our history in schools, promote it to the citizens and definitely don't support it politically or publicly (to any extent)

- What brought the Canadian Air and Space Museum to the position it's in. I don't have any informatin that the rest posting don't...but what happened to put the Museum in this position and can we learn from this so it doesn't happen again?

If the building is to be demolished it brings the Vision statement and values of Downsview Park under question.

From Downsview Parks Website...

http://www.downsviewpark.ca/eng/vision.shtml

Vision
"As articulated by the Board of Directors, "Downsview Park is a unique urban recreational green space, a safe and peaceful place developed according to the principles of environmental, economic and social sustainability, for Canadians to enjoy in all seasons. The park reflects Canada's mosaic brilliance and celebrates its past, present and future accomplishments."

How is destroying a Historic site that made STOL practical and brought the technology to the world celebrating Canada's past accomplishments?

Is it not denying present and future generations the knowledge and ability so see, feel and touch the history that has brought us to today?

Interesting that Vision statement isn't it?

Values
"Downsview Park is designed to support environmental, social and economic sustainability. The park offers a place for exploration, innovation and learning and fosters a sense of stewardship for grassroots groups, neighbourhood organizations, businesses, educational organizations and all Canadians. People of all demographics are encouraged to come and explore Downsview Park, where culture, sport, technology and nature mingle in the spirit of play. As a work in progress, the park will continue to evolve, as will its beauty, and serve as a legacy for generations to come."

How is destroying this historic site create a legacy for generations to come?

Seems to be denying our history for generations to come to me

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:20 am 
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Too late for the historic hangars beside the museum as they were demolished previously..

Quote:
Update;
Info as of 5pm Wed. Sept 21: museum has access to building and artifacts. PDP has given anywhere from 3 to 6 months to vacate so bldg can be redeveloped as 4 ice rink complex. PDP offers storage space and/or another premises for museum. We'll know more over the next few days. Mean time, work continues on our Lanc. More details as they become available.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Lancaster-FM104/168591673179822

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:06 pm 
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JDK wrote:
I don't think we are getting the full story -
HTH.


Exactly !
While I hope the Museum survives this problem, most do not realize that they have been operating pretty much month to month for a few years now and have not done much to improve their plight.
There has been much in fighting between the Board , volunteers etc with dismissals, firing etc. It seems like it has always been like that there.
Secondly , while the buildings are very historically important, they are located in an area that is less than ideal for the general public.
Also, the Museum needs to get people more aware of it's existence. Lots of people even aviation people have no idea that it even exists.
However, the biggest issue is the repeated rumors of the instability of the Board Directors over the years. This issue is well known within the aviation community and it hurts the Museum and it's reputation more than they actually realize.
Please don't get me wrong I am behind the Museum as a whole and hope it survives but the people running it need to take a serious look at what is happening , put egos and control issues aside and get together and agree on a common plan of direction for the Museum.

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Last edited by Fleet16b on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:51 am 
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No audio here but pretty powerful message all the same,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0TIYNarr2g&feature=youtu.be

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:43 pm 
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That's a very strong video. It would be a shame for that building (which is probably the most important building in Canada with regards to aviation) to be altered so substantially into a sports complex. It's a good place for an air museum to be. Federal government... smarten up, and don't let his happen.

Peace,

David M


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:45 pm 
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Location: port hope ontario canada
i lived in port hope and knew about this museum and made the hour and something drive to see it ! i found it a little dissorganized but loved the fact that i could walk freely aamongst the pieces of dissmantled merlins from the cne lancaster and feel the history of the building if this museum is alowwed to close there is something very wrong in canada! they can spend millions on some ugly addition to a museum down town that nobody wanted or has liked but they can,t stop the razing of our aviation history! problem is this is prime realestate here in toronto and the foreigners that have taken over this city have no respect and no clue of its history they are simply here to make a buck and rape and pilage the history of the area and there is no one to stop them because the government of ontario doesn,t care either they are far too busy doing raping and pilaging of theyre own!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Not looking good..this was posted on a modeling forum this afternoon:

Quote:
For Immediate Release
Downsview Park shuts down Toronto`s Canadian Air & Space Museum
Toronto -- September 24, 2011 -- Toronto's Canadian Air & Space Museum has received notice from its landlord Parc Downsview Park that the Park will be locking the doors today and closing the Museum to regular business.

The Park, a branch of the federal government, has control over the Museum's access after changing the locks following Tuesday's original eviction notice. This threatens to bring a sudden and disappointing close to the Canadian Air & Space Museum's 13-year operation of providing the public an opportunity to experience Canadian history.

After delivery of the original eviction notice on the morning of Tuesday, September 20th, and having the locks changed by early afternoon, the Museum's staff of three and dozens of volunteers believed they needed to vacate the premises immediately. They began scrambling to load vehicles with important administrative documents and remove rare artifacts and aircraft from the building, fearing future inaccessibility to them.

As the media immediately descended upon the Museum to cover this breaking story, Downsview Park advised media that it would extend to the Museum a six month stay of execution, verbally stating the Museum could carry on business as usual, keeping its doors open to visitors, scheduled group tours, school tours, events and birthday parties -- of which 5 were scheduled for this weekend.

Unfortunately, in an email dated Thursday, September 22 to Canadian Air & Space Museum CEO Rob Cohen, from Parc Downsview Park's Senior Vice-President of Operations Robert Singleton, it stated that the six month extension "was to facilitate the orderly wind-down of your operations."... "The access to the Premises that we are permitting is strictly for the purposes set out above."

A second email the next day, Friday, September 23, read:

"Further to our letter of last night this is to inform you that the Park will be opening your doors tomorrow (Saturday, September 24th) for your meeting and then locking them after that. To protect both the Museum and the Park from liability issues the doors will remain locked until we meet to finalize a schedule of access. I will make myself available anytime after 8am on Monday morning (September 26) to meet and discuss said schedule."

These and other messages from the Park are contradictory to verbal messages to Museum staff and supporters, and continue the Park's reputation for saying one thing, and acting upon another.

The main troubling issues are:

� The Park told media that the Museum could continue to welcome visitors and tours during the 6-months, when in fact they told the Museum to wind down their operations with no more public access.

� While it is true that the Museum is more than $100,000 in arrears of its rent to Parc Downsview Park, in May 2011, new management was put in place, which in mere months, managed to create a viable and profitable business that could meet its monthly contractual needs and begin to chip away at past debt. The Museum kept in contact with the Park regarding their improved financial situation, and all along, the Park indicated that the Museum was safe from eviction. Meanwhile, the Park was in secret negotiations to build the proposed 4-pad hockey arena.

� While originally, the reason for the eviction was focused on the Museum's debt to Parc Downsvew Park, the Museum soon learned that ALL the tenants of 65 Carl Hall Road had been served the same eviction papers. Again revealing that the Park had been quietly planning the clearing of this building for some time.

Yesterday's email and subsequent weekend lock out is a further blow to an already difficult and haemorrhaging situation.

Canadian Air & Space Museum background
The Canadian Air & Space Museum is a non-profit organization that is proud to host and showcase Canada's rich aviation history. Housed in the original manufacturing facility of the de Havilland Canada aircraft factory, it is not government funded and credits its creation and upkeep to hundreds of volunteers and thousands of volunteer hours. In addition to opening its doors to visitors, tours and special events, the Museum is part of the Toronto Board of Education's Grade 6 science and Grade 10 history curriculums -- hosting thousands of students each year.

- 30 -
For more information or an interview, please contact either:

Rob Cohen, CEO
Canadian Air & Space Museum
robcohen@rogers.com
Museum: 416-638-6078

Ian McDougall, Chairman of the Board
Canadian Air & Space Museum
ianmcd@delta-mike.com
Museum: 416-638-6078

(If you don`t get through the Museum number, you can respond to this email or call Diana Spremo at 905-484-9543)

www.casmuseum.org


It would be a real shame to lose this one. My wife and I visited back in 2007, and really enjoyed it..reminded me of the old Yankee Air Museum. Sure, the museum lacks some of the flash and polish of the bigger ones, but it was chock full of great exhibits, and the building itself is steeped in history. It would be great if the museum could be saved, but it sounds like the decision has already been made, and the paperwork is a mere formality. I'm surpised the bulldozers didn't just show up unannounced and start leveling the place.

SN

SN


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:22 pm 
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This is a real shame. Toronto doesn't seem to know they are throwing out a gem.

Looking forward... I hope the Lancaster project goes to a good home. Perhaps a few hours down the road to Trenton? They are a bit busy with a Lodestar and Anson. But if the parts could be stored... well, they have shown what they can do in the past.

Mike

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:49 pm 
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I know it's asking a lot, but I'd like to see a Lancaster in BC. I don't know anyone out here that could support its restoration, but money talks. lol.

I certainly do hope things work out for the best, and in the event it is needed, that the airplanes find the best homes possible.

-David M


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