Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:25 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:46 am
Posts: 520
Location: Kent, Washington State
http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/events01/media/22_991R.txt

Bela P. Havasreti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:05 pm 
Offline
Co-MVP - 2006
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 11471
Location: Salem, Oregon
How can they say minor. Engine, prop, doghouse yada yada yada :shock: :?

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:15 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:18 pm
Posts: 3293
Location: Phoenix, Az
Jack Cook wrote:
How can they say minor. Engine, prop, doghouse yada yada yada :shock: :?


It is minor because they don't have to unbolt the data plate to repair it............

_________________
Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
Check out the Ercoupe Discussion Group on facebook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 620
Location: S. Texas
Found this terrible video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ykDZXiY6M

Only damage I see is the RH inner gear door.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:50 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 9720
Location: Pittsburgher misplaced in Oshkosh
Not the first time this airplane has done this. Oddly enough I think it bellied in on 9/11. Not sure which year though.

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:27 pm 
Offline
Co-MVP - 2006
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 11471
Location: Salem, Oregon
Good god there's 60 seconds of my life I'll never get back :? :twisted:

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:44 pm
Posts: 966
Location: Seattle, WA
I think it's just bad karma. The Dr. changed the paint scheme several years ago...and Howie is somewhere in the back room steaming over it..... 8)

_________________
Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:50 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Dallas / Midland TX
If that video is correct, then that was not a gear up landing.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:51 pm 
Offline
Co-MVP - 2006
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 11471
Location: Salem, Oregon
A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one :shock:

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:50 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Dallas / Midland TX
Jack Cook wrote:
A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one :shock:


Normally I would agree 100% but I have never seen the NTSB list a belly landing as an "incident" with the damage listed as "minor". Just seems weird..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:02 pm
Posts: 786
Location: US
MX304 wrote:
Jack Cook wrote:
A crap video showing nothing vs the NTSB.......hum??
I'm going with the gov't on this one :shock:


Normally I would agree 100% but I have never seen the NTSB list a belly landing as an "incident" with the damage listed as "minor". Just seems weird..


I agree incident would be minor damage IE one main gear failure not both which would be bad but not REALLY bad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:14 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:28 pm
Posts: 2184
Location: Waukesha, WI
Strange video. Star Wars-esqe to explain a bad landing? How about the facts?

_________________
"There are old pilots and bold pilots but few old, bold pilots."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:30 pm 
Offline
S/N Geek
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:31 pm
Posts: 3790
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
That is a real shame. I was looking forward to seeing M.A. at Reno. Last year I was a complete Reno newbie. As Miss America was turning laps during a race a lady from the crew happened to be standing close by and gave me a running commentary of what was going on. I didn't really appreciate the nuances but after that race I had a much better understanding and walked away that feeling educated.

My condolences to the crew. Thank you for your time at Reno. My best wishes go to you in getting Miss America back in the air.

Regards,

Mike

_________________
Mike R. Henniger
Aviation Enthusiast & Photographer
http://www.AerialVisuals.ca
http://www.facebook.com/AerialVisuals

Do you want to find locations of displayed, stored or active aircraft? Then start with the The Locator.
Do you want to find or contribute to the documented history of an aircraft? If so then start with the Airframes Database.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:59 pm 
Offline
Co-MVP - 2006
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 11:21 pm
Posts: 11471
Location: Salem, Oregon
Image
The words "minor damage" are always open to interpretation :shock:
Image

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:49 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 3413
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas, USA
I'm sorry guys, but "Minor" damage isn't open to interpretation. Both the FAA and NTSB have pretty clear guidelines on how damage is classified. FAA Order 8020.11C is the current version of the regulation that both the FAA and NTSB use as their guideline.

Quote:
d. Aircraft Accident - an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes
place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and until such time as
all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in
which the aircraft receives substantial damage. All aspects of the exceptions to substantial damage
(see "Substantial Damage") should be considered before making a final substantial damage
determination that would classify the occurrence as an accident.


Quote:
i. Destroyed Aircraft - an aircraft damaged to the extent that it would be impracticable to return
the aircraft to an airworthy condition.


Quote:
r. Incident - an occurrence other than an accident associated with the operation of an aircraft,
which affects or could affect the safety of operations.


Quote:
ff. Substantial Damage - damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength,
performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or
replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one
engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or
fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps,
engine accessories, brakes, or wing tips are not considered substantial damage for the purpose of this
order.


Basically, unless the wing spar or flight surfaces are seriously damaged to require repair or replacement, damage is not "Substantial". Since the only 3 levels of damage are "Minor", "Substantial", and "Destroyed", then by definition, the accident resulted in "Minor" damage. The FAA and NTSB never have, and probably never will, use cost as a determination of how serious an accident or the damage caused by it is for the exact reason you stated Jack. Then again, cost scales pretty directly with the airplane. I couldn't afford out of pocket to fix a Cessna if, God Forbid, I happened to ding it anymore than many Warbird owners can really afford to fix their airplane. I'll guarantee you that most airlines can't just fix a dinged aircraft out of pocket either. That's why we have hull insurance and we all try to do the damnedest to make sure that if something fails, it's a mechanical failure that we couldn't have prevented and we deal with it as it comes.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group