Air Zoo Thinning the Collection More?

[kalamazookid]

Anyone know if the Air Zoo has sold their Ford Trimotor? I notice there were photos of it at Oshkosh and there hasn't been any mention of it being airworthy from the Air Zoo.

Also, I've seen pictures of the ex-Harry Tope T-6 that was on display at the Air Zoo for many years at a local fly-in. I would think that it has a new owner and the museum isn't flying it. Anyone know more?

I've sent several emails to museum staff in the past couple weeks, but nobody has bothered replying. Wondering if they might be quietly thinning out the collection some more.

[Zachary]

If the Trimotor was sold, it wasn't to EAA. As far as I know (being just a peon within the organization), EAA leased (or perhaps even borrowed) the K-Zoo Trimotor for the duration of AirVenture to meet the high demand for passenger rides. Some work was being done at EAA's Weeks maintenance hangar in exchange of its use, including a new brake system. I know this isn't a whole lot of info, but perhaps it fills in the missing pieces for you.

Zack

[Tim Savage]

The Tope family T-6 as far as I know always belonged to the family and had been for sale for a number of years.

[SPANNERmkV]

I'd make 'em a heck of a deal on either the P-40 or the Buchon, but I can't guarantee either would stay in the current paint jobs!

TEXAS RAIDERS visited the Airzoo in 2010 and I would love to go back ASAP!

Many good memories there!

SPANNER

[marine air]

The Museum could make some pretty good strategic trades if they thought about it.
1)They could sell the FM-2 Wildcat for a static display F4F loaned from the U.S.N.
2) trade the P-39 for a static P-39 and a bundle of cash. There are many P-39 projects out there.
3) Trade the T-28A Ellis conversion for a static display T-28Bor C and a little cash.
4) THe P-47 for a non flyer and cash.
The Hellcat is irreplaceable. THe B-25 would be an easy swap but the market is bad and it wouldn't bring very much. The P-40 and COrsair were flown by Sue and Pete as military pilots in WW II. Integral to their story.
A good swap for the Buchon , would bea static display Oscar as most of the aircraft tie inwith WW II and Naval Aviation.

[svengi]

It was bittersweet a year or two ago when I was clearing brush east of the kalamazoo airport, and heard the sound of a big radial. Then what did I see but the bearcat doing about 15 minutes of aerobatics right over my field! Wonderful to see her in the air, wringing about as if happy to be free at last, but sad that I could no longer drive 3 miles anytime I wanted to see her. I could see how some strategic trades wouldn't be a bad idea. However, at this point, many of these planes have a long history at the airzoo so there's probably reluctance. Would be pretty cool to see them back in the air again though! I remember the "high on kalamazoo" airshows in the 80's and 90's, seeing the tigercat doing "victory rolls" and loops, the cat-flight, p-39 and p-40, and just seeing that whole collection flying around was what got me into aviation. Also, that buchon was my favorite plane when I was about 5 or 6, because I liked the color blue, and it looked like it was smiling!

[TimAPNY]

The Museum could make some pretty good strategic trades if they thought about it.
1)They could sell the FM-2 Wildcat for a static display F4F loaned from the U.S.N.
2) trade the P-39 for a static P-39 and a bundle of cash. There are many P-39 projects out there.
3) Trade the T-28A Ellis conversion for a static display T-28Bor C and a little cash.
4) THe P-47 for a non flyer and cash.
The Hellcat is irreplaceable. THe B-25 would be an easy swap but the market is bad and it wouldn't bring very much. The P-40 and COrsair were flown by Sue and Pete as military pilots in WW II. Integral to their story.
A good swap for the Buchon , would bea static display Oscar as most of the aircraft tie inwith WW II and Naval Aviation.

Interesting list of ideas... Seems like a win/win. But I know some of the birds would take time, money and work to get on display from the Navy. But it would also tell a great story about the like "near" the museum.

Tim

[kalamazookid]

The Museum could make some pretty good strategic trades if they thought about it.
1)They could sell the FM-2 Wildcat for a static display F4F loaned from the U.S.N.
2) trade the P-39 for a static P-39 and a bundle of cash. There are many P-39 projects out there.
3) Trade the T-28A Ellis conversion for a static display T-28Bor C and a little cash.
4) THe P-47 for a non flyer and cash.
The Hellcat is irreplaceable. THe B-25 would be an easy swap but the market is bad and it wouldn't bring very much. The P-40 and COrsair were flown by Sue and Pete as military pilots in WW II. Integral to their story.
A good swap for the Buchon , would bea static display Oscar as most of the aircraft tie inwith WW II and Naval Aviation.

I like the ideas, but they'd never part with the FM-2 because that was one of the planes Pete Parrish originally had that started it all, so to speak. I just don't see them ever parting with that one, no matter how dire the circumstances.

The P-39 would need a bit of work on the airframe to be a flyer. To my knowledge, it hasn't flown since the mid-1970s, although I heard a rumor they were going to get Chuck Yeager to fly it at the airshow one year (never happened). The repairs to the tail from the Chevy Blazer crash were also not done to airworthy standards so those would need to be reconstructed. It could definitely be done, it's a nice airframe to start with.

The B-25 might be an easy swap, but there's no amount of money that would make that one worth returning to the air. It's just a shell. No interior to speak of, and new spars, etc. would have to be built. That being said, it is a very nice static display and is actually one of my favorites in the museum.

It would be a tragedy to repaint the Buchon. A lot of people don't like the purple, but that is the exact original scheme that aircraft wore. That paint scheme is part of the aircraft's original history, and I'd hate to see it repainted just because someone doesn't like the purple. FWIW I believe it's a very attractive scheme that shows the lines of the aircraft well.

Thanks for the information on the T-6 and Trimotor. I keep hoping they'll get a rides program going with the Trimotor again, but haven't heard anything since it returned from its restoration in Alma two years ago. Nice to see that T-6 in the air though, the "Oily Boid" will have a chance to earn its nickname

It was bittersweet a year or two ago when I was clearing brush east of the kalamazoo airport, and heard the sound of a big radial. Then what did I see but the bearcat doing about 15 minutes of aerobatics right over my field! Wonderful to see her in the air, wringing about as if happy to be free at last, but sad that I could no longer drive 3 miles anytime I wanted to see her. I could see how some strategic trades wouldn't be a bad idea. However, at this point, many of these planes have a long history at the airzoo so there's probably reluctance. Would be pretty cool to see them back in the air again though! I remember the "high on kalamazoo" airshows in the 80's and 90's, seeing the tigercat doing "victory rolls" and loops, the cat-flight, p-39 and p-40, and just seeing that whole collection flying around was what got me into aviation. Also, that buchon was my favorite plane when I was about 5 or 6, because I liked the color blue, and it looked like it was smiling!

Those were some great times. My Dad started taking me to the Air Zoo before I could walk, and I feel like I grew up there. I was there when both the Tigercat and Bearcat left, and both were bittersweet in their own ways. The Tigercat because I had wished for years to see it fly again, the Bearcat because it never got to fly under Air Zoo ownership after it bellied in in 1995. I'll never forget seeing that Tigercat fly... seeing John Ellis fly the aerobatic routine in that, complete with the "sneak passes" around the corner of the museum are some of my most cherished memories of my childhood. It sure was fun while it lasted.

[P51Mstg]

I can say the P-39 flew at least as recently as Summer of 1983 (say May or so) since I saw someone from PAX River flying it when I was on my way to South Bend to go to school and stopped at the ZOO.... Of course 1983 wasn't that recently....

Mark H

[Warbird Kid]

That P-39 was also originally a dual-control was it not?


More Info here: http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lendlease/tp-39/twoseaterp-39.html

Imagine the Collings Foundation flying around on tour with that!

[P51Mstg]

That was dual control.... Seemed like one of those survived the war or something..... At 51 getting older and starting to forget stuff..

Mark H

[John Ceglarek]

The Airzoo has not sold the Trimotor...Airzoo and EAA went into some sort of a partnership so that EAA could use the aircraft. I don't know for certain, but I expect the Trimotor will spend the winter back in Kalamazoo. If the Airzoo could find a sponsor, I believe they would again sell rides in the aircraft.

I believe the comments made about the P-39 not being airworthy are incorrect. I would have to double-check, but I thought the tail repair was done to allow the aircraft to still be flyable.

I agree with the comment made about the Buchon paint scheme...like it or not, it is correct for the aircraft. Sue's P-40 will never leave, so long as the museum exists...I'm certain of that. I suspect the Corsair is in the same category. I personally would like to have an F4F-3 or -4 in place of the FM-2, but that's just me...in reality I don't see either the FM-2 or the P-47 ever being swapped. The B-25 is nowhere near airworthy, so I don't see why the Airzoo would be interested in swapping it for another non-airworthy example. The T-28 could go and most of us wouldn't miss it...in fact many of us would have gladly parted with it and several other aircraft in order to have kept the cat collection intact. Not all of the Airzoo's aircraft transactions/display decisions make sense to those of us who volunteer there, but then again we're not the ones being paid to make the decisions. Enough said on that, I think, lest I find myself in trouble.

As far as I know, the Airzoo has no plans to part with, or trade, any of the collection. But then again, the cat sales caught us by surprise too.

[Steve Nelson]

It would be a tragedy to repaint the Buchon. A lot of people don't like the purple, but that is the exact original scheme that aircraft wore. That paint scheme is part of the aircraft's original history, and I'd hate to see it repainted just because someone doesn't like the purple. FWIW I believe it's a very attractive scheme that shows the lines of the aircraft well.

Agreed..I like the historically accurate scheme, and would hate to see it in a Luftwaffe costume.

The P-40 and COrsair were flown by Sue and Pete as military pilots in WW II. Integral to their story.

A small correction here..I don't think Sue ever flew a P-40 as a WASP. I read an interview with her a few years ago, in which she said the reason she got the P-40 when she and Pete started collecting warbirds was because she always wanted to fly one but never got the opportunity. That said, even though the paint scheme is rather "unique" (being diplomatic here) that P-40 has always been, and always will be the Air Zoo's signature aircraft. Somewhere I've got some video of the last time I saw it fly, at the 1992 "High On Kalamazoo" air show.

SN

[marine air]

I thought their B-25 was a cannon nosed D or H model. Remember seeing it at Oshkosh and it had the eight gun nose because there was only one cannon nose available and it was installed on "Barbie III." I definitely remember they spent a fortune on it. Are we talking about the same B-25?
The first aircraft in the collection, IFIRC, was the Bearcat painted in silver Royal Thai markings. This was followed by the T-28A/Ellis and the Wildcat and P-40 shortly thereafter the F6F, P-47 and Corsair. FOr a few years there, the Parrish' showed up at Oshkosh every year and took top honors with a new aircraft.
The P-39 was towards the end of it all, with the B-25, Trimotor and T-34A. They bought the T-34A because Sue was getting too old to fly the P-40. The P-39 was flown to Michigan and supposedly was restored to Oshkosh award standards but they made a decision not to fly it because of it's rarity.
The PT-23 was once owned by my dad. We bought it from The Kimballs in Zellwood ,FLa. In 1980. Dad sold it a year later to Tom Austin in 1981. Austin was having it restored by Kal-Aero and the bills ran up to about $50 or 60K so he donated it to them. Meanwhile he worked his way into the cockpit of the F6F !

[Tim Savage]

I thought their B-25 was a cannon nosed D or H model. Remember seeing it at Oshkosh and it had the eight gun nose because there was only one cannon nose available and it was installed on "Barbie III." I definitely remember they spent a fortune on it. Are we talking about the same B-25?
The first aircraft in the collection, IFIRC, was the Bearcat painted in silver Royal Thai markings. This was followed by the T-28A/Ellis and the Wildcat and P-40 shortly thereafter the F6F, P-47 and Corsair. FOr a few years there, the Parrish' showed up at Oshkosh every year and took top honors with a new aircraft.
The P-39 was towards the end of it all, with the B-25, Trimotor and T-34A. They bought the T-34A because Sue was getting too old to fly the P-40. The P-39 was flown to Michigan and supposedly was restored to Oshkosh award standards but they made a decision not to fly it because of it's rarity.
The PT-23 was once owned by my dad. We bought it from The Kimballs in Zellwood ,FLa. In 1980. Dad sold it a year later to Tom Austin in 1981. Austin was having it restored by Kal-Aero and the bills ran up to about $50 or 60K so he donated it to them. Meanwhile he worked his way into the cockpit of the F6F !

The B-25 never flew, it was only restored as a static display. It was a mess when it arrived at the museum and sat outside the original musuem by the flagpole for a bunch more years. The Air Zoo has never had a flying B-25.

The P-39 was actually one of the earlier airplanes and was never restored by the Air Zoo. It stayed in the same paint it had been in with the previsous owner (Ed Messick?). The last time I saw it fly was in the 85-86 time frame when "Rocky' Rockwell was flying it. He was from Pax River. I was told at the time when he stopped flying for the museum they stopped flying it because no one else liked to fly it.

As far as I know the Wildcat and the Stearman were the first official airplanes in the museum. Gunther Balz still owned the Bearcat when Pete got the Wildcat IIRC.

I haven't seen the new addition to the facility completed this summer, but the place is more of an attraction, not a museum, which I guess is okay (my son loves it), but I agree with other posters, they could just as easily use airplanes only capable of static display or for that matter, fiberglass models and it would probably attract mostly the same folks.