RFC 100th Anniversary, what are you doing.

[Tom H]

We are unveiling a new exhibit...

Here's the press release:

100th Anniversary of the Royal Flying Corps

The Royal Flying Corps (RFC) was established April 13, 1912 and operated until April 1, 1918 when all of Britian’s air operations were amalgamated into the Royal Air Force (RAF).

Britain realized both the potential and importance of the aircraft as a tool of war early and established the RFC to train pilots and crew as well as developing the aircraft as reconnaissance tool using aerial photography. When the First World War started in 1914 the reconnaissance capability became crucial to combat on the ground. Knowing where the enemy was, how they were set up and what troop movements were being made were critical to developing the ground strategy.

Soon both sides sought to deny the enemy the ability to gain information from aerial reconnaissance leading to the development of specialized fighter aircraft and combat tactics.

The aerial arms race quickly produced technological advances and massed fleets of aircraft on both sides.
Canadians in the Royal Flying Corps

Few Canadians know that Canadian fighter pilots in the First World War ranked with the best, with many of the top aces being Canadian.

Two of the most noteworthy Canadian airmen of the war were William (Billy) Bishop, awarded the Victoria Cross, and William (Billy) Barker, the most decorated British Soldier (all services) of the First World War.

Edmontonians in the Royal Flying Corps

Even fewer know of the aircrews from Edmonton and area that left their mark in the RFC and during the aerial combats of the First World War.
- Stanley Winther Caws, First Canadian killed in aerial combat (1915).
- Arthur Roy Brown, Credited by the RAF with the downing of the “Red Baron”
- Wilfrid R (Wop) May, almost the 81st victim of the “Red Baron”. Went on to become a Canadian Ace and eventually one of Canadian’s most famous aviators.

The Alberta Aviation Museum is celebrating this 100th Anniversary as well as Canadian and Edmontonian contributions with a new exhibit to be unveiled 9:00am Friday morning. This Exhibit will continue to evolve with special artifacts and custom built models being added to the story through 2012.

We are hoping you can join us as we add this exhibit promoting Canadian
and Edmontonian history.

Thomas Hinderks
Executive Director
Alberta Aviation Museum
Media contact: 780-907-8455

[Invader26]

Roy Brown did not shoot down the "Red Baron". Australian infantry did it. The bullet that killed him came from the front of him.

Full marks to Brown however for driving him down in combat to his fate.

[Fleet16b]

Roy Brown did not shoot down the "Red Baron". Australian infantry did it. The bullet that killed him came from the front of him.

Whatever.........there was never any real conclusive evidence to prove that it was a ground shot.
Brown was officially credited with shooting him down even though about 5 people on the ground all say they each did it.
There have been many investigations and books written but none solve the controversy

[Tom H]

Now now

The RAF still credits Brown with the victory.
(But he didn't make the claim)

Even at the time their were complaints about Brown being an unknown and how could it be him.

But as we say in our exhibit, no one will ever really know.

The crash site was pillaged, the autopsy shoddy (depending on which author you read) and the bullet stolen.

It will remain one of the great mysteries....Unsolved.

But after reading all the versions, seeing all the TV specials (inc the poorly done Nova one) I still think it was Brown. Can't prove it...but it's my opinion.

Tom

[Tom H]

Quotes from our exhibit:
"The Royal Air Force officially credited Brown with shooting down Manfred von Richthofen, the "Red Baron", although it cannot conclusively be proven that Brown fired the bullet that caused his death.

What is less well known is that Brown never lost a pilot in his flight during combat, a very rare distinction for an air unit commander of the First World War."

From my perspective...I think the second point is a far greater distinction than the first.

and

"There are many accounts of the battle and in recent years some authors have argued that ground fire from Australian or British troops brought the Red Baron down.

But the fact is we will never know for sure.

The crash site was pillaged by souvenir hunters before an investigation could happen and the bullet that killed the Baron disappeared during the autopsy so there is no way to prove who fired the shot that ended the Red Baron’s dominance."

Pretty much sums it up till new conclusive information turns up.

[Fleet16b]

Now now

The RAF still credits Brown with the victory.
(But he didn't make the claim)

Tom

Tom

Brown did enter a combat report/ claim as was standard after all patrol:

Combat Report
"At 10:35 a.m. I observed two Albatrosses burst into flames and crash. Dived on a large formation of fifteen to twenty Albatross scouts, D.5's, and Fokker triplanes, two of which got on my tail, and I cameout. Went back again and dived on pure red triplane which was firing on Lieutenant Wilfrid May. I got a long burst into him, and he went down vertically and was observed to crash by Lieutenant Francis Mellersh and Lieutenant May. I fired on two more but did not get them." Brown's combat report, April 21, 1918

Brown was an experienced Flight Leader that had victories before this one . IMHO he would have been easily able to tell whether or not his shots were effective
However, as in all situations of this nature , there are many that want to jump on the band wagon

[Tom H]

Now now

The RAF still credits Brown with the victory.
(But he didn't make the claim)

Tom

Tom

Brown did enter a combat report/ claim as was standard after all patrol:

Combat Report
"At 10:35 a.m. I observed two Albatrosses burst into flames and crash. Dived on a large formation of fifteen to twenty Albatross scouts, D.5's, and Fokker triplanes, two of which got on my tail, and I cameout. Went back again and dived on pure red triplane which was firing on Lieutenant Wilfrid May. I got a long burst into him, and he went down vertically and was observed to crash by Lieutenant Francis Mellersh and Lieutenant May. I fired on two more but did not get them." Brown's combat report, April 21, 1918

Brown was an experienced Flight Leader that had victories before this one . IMHO he would have been easily able to tell whether or not his shots were effective
However, as in all situations of this nature , there are many that want to jump on the band wagon

Morning Fleet

I have not found a copy of his report (if you have a source please I am all ears, eyes, etc.!) and the varied accounts I have read over the years have given differing versions of what his report read.

Most commonly, and agreed with by Denny May (son of Wop May), is that Brown's report claimed he fired at the Red Triplane till it broke off but leaves it at that. Brown's superiors are said to have made the changes that led to the claim.

All that said I think the most important thing is he came to May's aid (they were friends from Victoria Composite High School in Edmonton) and saved his life.

May went on (as you know) to become not only an ace but one of the most famous bush pilots with many many firsts, feats and rescues.

The story of the downing of the Baron is one of the great examples of how lack of good information and evidence leads to historic controversy.

Thanks for the note...now my curiosity is up again, maybe time to do a FOIP request.

BTW...perosnally I still think Brown shot down von Richtofen, I'd just love to be able to conclusively back it up.

[CDF]

...and the bullet that killed the Baron disappeared during the autopsy so there is no way to prove who fired the shot that ended the Red Baron’s dominance.".

Question without notice. What would that prove given that .303 was the predominant calibre being used by both AIF and the RFC? And how would you possibly perform a ballistics test on the projectile if it existed?

Call me colloquial but theres not doubt in my mind that Sgt Cedric Popkin brought the Baron down

[Tom H]

If the bullet hadn't disappeared at the time it (or still existed today) it could have been matched to the weapon it fired.

Each weapon of course leaves different unique marks on the projectile.

As such it could have been definitively proven what weapon it came from.

Call me colloquial but theres not doubt in my mind that Sgt Cedric Popkin brought the Baron down

The wonderful thing about a free society...we each have our own opinion...but CDF we do disagree.

With the lack of evidence we shall never know who is really right.

Your being from Australia and me being from Canada could it be any other way! (LOL)

Tom