A post or so about those Spits

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

I need a reply to this person.

It will be years before any if at all of those Spits ever see a runway. Since the life expectancy of combat aircraft was less than 100 hours of flight time, the military spec did not call for any type of corrosion blocking. Dissimilar metals were paired together on a routine basis.

Even though the aircraft were crated for overseas shipment, I doubt if the anti corrosives were ever intended for 69 year useful life including being buried in the humid soil of a tropical countyside.

While the fact that the aircraft do still exist at all is rather a remarkable find, the work to bring them back to life will be nothing shy of a complete rebuild.

The "warbirds" that get all the oohs and ahhs at airshows are actually surviving training aircraft and end of production runs that have seen limited time with a guard or reserve unit. I talked to one of our local "Ol Geezer's" that owned half of a P-51 in the early fifties. He said the aircraft had 5 hours on the airframe when they purchased it for the sum of $1,000 at a surplus auction. According to him that was the going price then for a flyable aircraft. T-6s brought a bit more because they could be used for flight training.

My reply:
I totally disagree with you. Some aircraft are totally new aircraft and bulit up from old plans. Some are as you say and some of those have every rivet replaced and with the machine shops available now days they can even make new spars for Warbird aircraft. You will be amazed at how bad off some wrecks are and then totally rebuilt and flying. The aluminum is the easy part. The steel fittings etc are the hard stuff etc, They build the new ones better than the old ones.

Go to http://www.warbirdinformationexchang...pBB3/index.php.

This is the Supreme Warbird forum. Don't post any BS over there because you will get called out for it. Those guys know there stuff There are actually a few still flying aircraft that have actual combat histories.

You can just about post any photo of n aircraft on there and within an hour or so you will have a great deal of history on it. They know the pilots, the airplanes,the operational units, the bases, and even the buildings in the background. Try posting an unknown photo over there and you will be amazed.

His reply:
OK With a meer 40 years of aviation experience I guess I don't know anything!!!!!!!!!!! I will go rip my work out of the 4 aviation museums that proudly display it and remove the 20 years of tech writing for manufacturers. I should also surrender my A&P, IA, Senior and Master Parachute Riggers certificates and all my pilots licenses and type ratings.

Reading a website trumps experience any day!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you can RECONSTRUCT an aircraft from nothing more than a data plate and a set of original log books, but the resulting aircraft is not original ( I know, I have done it). The only "warbirds" I know of that have been constructed new are a couple of FW 190's and a limited run of 5 ME 262's that Steve Snyder built a few years ago. Then there is that "Zero" that The Planes of Fame museum constructed from original technical drawings once they managed to find the few surviving Japanese that could still read and translate the "TECHNICAL JAPANESE" used during WWII. The remainder of the "new" aircraft are comprised of replicas.

I am not amazed at all at some of the "restorations". Given enough time and money, MIRACLES can happen providing you can still find some one that knows how to do the work. That is why I searched the world to find a master E-wheel man to learn from. I found Malcolm in the Scots Highlands quietly restoring T series MG's and apprenticed from him. Through him I met and had a few delightful dinners with a couple of "SPIT" pilots and more than a few Hurricane pilots and aircraft repairmen. They all tell tales of spit and wire repairs (predating 100 MPH tape and wire tyes) and of the corrosion damage from being stationed close to the coast.

Look me up at Oshkosh and I will gladly introduce you to a few friends of mine.
__________________

How should i reply back? Am i wrong in what i said?

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

I think your friend would fit in great here. He sounds like he's sure he knows more than everyone else!

For the record I think your reply was a good one. He just doesn't think you could possibly know what are talking about.

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 pm

I don't know if further responses with him will get you anywhere.
He probably has done it all, seen it all and knows it all and is quite willing to tell you all about it.
I don't think you will be able change his mind about it.

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

Where can i find a list of Warbird originals? That is Warbirds that flew in WW ll and are flying.
thanks

marine air · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:19 pm

"JANE YOU IGNORANT SLUT!!" (borrowed from SNL) Actually, it go go either way.
Okay, doesn't it seem like most everything retrieved from underground, under ice, salt water, or a rubbish dump seems to be mangled and crushed somewhat when recovered?
Those pits would have had to have been huge and very deep and the top of the boxes would have had to have been several feet below surface. Like digging a deep pond or canal.
Second, what type of wood were the boxes made? If they were made of pine or other softwood, they would be pretty much returned to the soil. If they were Hickory, Ash, Cedar or other type hardwood they cold still be pretty darn tight regardless of exposure to water, etc.
Were the spits buried to keep from falling into the wrong hands or was there a possibilty the BRits would retrieve them. I hope they didn't drive the buldozer over the top when covering them up.
I have bought a lot of Willy's jeep parts that were N.O.S. from the 1940's and 1950's. IF they have ever been exposed to water, then there will be corrosion of some kind. On the other hand, I have taken engine gages and parts right out of the airtight containers and they looked factory new and performed flawlessly even though dissimilar metals were used in making the parts. Some were in cosmoline, others not.
Just a WAG, my bet is 15% chance they are in very good shape and 85% chance of substantial damage.

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:48 pm

Versatile wrote:

Where can i find a list of Warbird originals? That is Warbirds that flew in WW ll and are flying.
thanks

What is your definition of original?
Bald Eagle was around during WWII. It doesn't have the same engine or prop, even the horizontal has been changed in the last 10 years.
The Spifire in the hangar was built the same week the war ended. It was damaged by the RAF in India and rebuilt by the RAF. It was further restored in the 80s but who knows what parts are original to the airframe but they are all from aircraft built during WWII.
The SNJ-3 we recently purchased has logbooks back to sept 42. But during it's service a wing was changed because an ensign hit a buzzard during a training flight. The horizontals were changed a couple times during wartime service. Today it has a NOS tailcone that has never flown but was produced during WWII. Also the engine and prop aren't original but they also were changed multiple times during the war.
No aircraft are original back to the day they were built. Many times they roll off the production line over to a modification center to be updated and upgraded. Tech orders constantly get introduced that get incorporated.
There are very few that could still be close to original like they were in WWII but not many.
There are some that have been constantly together and flying since the war but most have had repairs, overhauls or some degree of rebuilding. Many time this was done by the military.
So what do you call original?

Versatile · **Joined:** Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:35 pm **Posts:** 636

What is your definition of original? I understand what you are saying. My definition doesn't mean squat. Thats why i ask here at WIX.
Thanks

RobC · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:14 am

Most of the P-51s, Spitfires and P-40's restored in the last 5 - 10 years have more than 50% new metal. If you could carbon-date the metal, it originates from the 1990's to 2000's. The EAA Warbirds organization recognized this years ago and came up with the Phoenix award. A very far-sighted move in my opinion. It recognizes the phenomenal effort and superb workmanship in today's restorations, while also not pretending that the airplane being recognized with the award is mostly original metal. Twilight Tear was recognized at OSH for both being the best warbird (Grand Champion) and Phoenix award for its origins. A great example of a future likely winner has been provided by Chuck Wahl with his Vultures Row postings. You can see that they started with a real, original airplane. In order to make it airworthy, most of the structure must be replaced. A nit-picker might argue that it is not original, but he is just farting in the wind since the process is widely practiced and accepted by both OSH judges and warbird buyers and collectors.

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

Somewhere around here there's a huge thread about "original" I think. Someone mentioned a comment used in the world of restored cars, about the janitor who says he's used the same mop for 25 years & it's only had 5 handles & 10 heads replaced.

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:50 pm

Well with his 40 years of aviation experience and having an A&P, I.A., parachute rigger, blah, blah, blah. He knows it all! :roll:

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2308

Versatile wrote:

How should i reply back?

Tell him to heat up a big pot of water, & when it boils, stick his head in it.

Warbird Information Exchange

A post or so about those Spits

Who is online