Warbird Information Exchange

if they weren't wrecked or shot up, how long did a plane last during the war? I know they weren't meant to last forever, and I always hear about war weary old birds being used for parts or as shuttles etc. But what was the lifetime of an aircraft, on average?

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Well, "How Boot That" has combat hours on her airframe, survived the scrap dealer, co-starred in the mega Motion Picture Catch 22, survived a hitch in graveyard in PA, escaped junking after Harry Doan died, so I guess they can last as long as they have maintenance
Courtesy of http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b25regis ... 28925.html
Delivered to USAAF as 44-28925.
- BOC: Aug. 1944.
- SOC: 1958
- Allocated to 380th BS/310th BG/57th BW, Italy.
- Flew more than 80 combat missions in northern Italy,
Southern Austria and Yugoslavia.
- After war converted to TB-25N configuration.
- Stored at Davis Monthan AFB, AZ, Dec. 1957-1958.
Parsons Air Park, Carpenteria, CA, Apr. 1958-1964.
- Registered as N7687C as a Fire Bomber.
- Modified for electronic test equipment, July 1960.
Trans West Air Service/Aerial Applicators Inc, Salt Lake City, UT, Aug. 1964-1969.
Tallmantz Aviation Inc, Orange County, CA, May 1968-1971.
- Flew in movie "Catch 22" as "Tokyo Express", 1968-1969.
Forest Lawn Gardens Veterans Cemetary, Pittsburg, PA, May 1971-1984.
- Airlifted to cemetary by helicopter, Oct. 1972.
- Displayed on pole as 428925/Daisy Jean.
Harry Doan, Daytona Beach, FL, Aug. 1984-1992.
- Trucked to Florida for rebuild, Oct. 1984.
- Stored disassembled, Kissimee, FL, 1984-1990.
James Cavanaugh/The Cavanaugh Flight Museum, Addison, TX, Oct. 1992-2005.
- Restored to airworthy at Chino, CA.
- First flight, June 1995.
- Flown as How `Boot That!'?.

Looks great for pushing what.....70 years old?

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

That's a really good question Muddy, and I don't have a referenced answer.

As Gary's pointed out, most W.W.II era heavy aircraft were capable of long life - right to the present and beyond, if reasonably maintained, so the long end, for, say, a C-47 family member is 70 years and counting.

The interesting question is the short end. I've heard all sorts of figures bandied about from weeks (often 109s in the late war or Blitzkrieg era) to months. It's certainly reasonable to say no front line fighter or bomber type of W.W.II would be built with an expectation of unmodified service of beyond a year, as it would be expected to be upgraded or obsolete within that period.

However whether or not it would be structurally sound beyond that period is another question.

Another aspect, and the only quantified area I've seen figures for, is the degree (or not) of production protection built into aircraft. Most western nations over-protected the aircraft in the build stage, given the potential life of the airframe was significantly shorter than those measures of corrosion proofing enabled. Conversely, the German and Japanese constructors took major shortcuts in material care in the late war period, and few aircraft were unusable or lost because of those compromises.

Engines are another whole question.

Any data anyone can bring to the table would be most interesting!

Regards,

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

to further complicate matters we must take into account aircraft that were returned to the factory or maintenance centres for overhaul/upgrading as well as wrecked aircraft that were returned to the factory or other centres for rebuild. The Alfred Price book on the Spitfire has a good chapter iirc that gives an overview of wrecked Spitfires being rebuilt, sometimes being upgraded at the same time (Mark I & II into Vb for example), and the Germans also seemed to have an extensive system for this as well (Erla for example).

So maybe a particular aircraft is issued to a squadron, serves for a while, is damaged and reclaimed and rebuilt then reissued once more...and this could happen multiple times.

However I'm sure there is documentation somewhere that states how many combat hours an aircraft has to accrue before being considered War Weary, or being fit only for overhaul and issue to non front-line duties. Complex topic though.

greg v.

People who bought former iron curtain fighters, especially early ones like Mig-15's in the early days of availability were amazed to discover that the aircraft and/or engine required major overhauls at about 100 hours of operating and outside of normal 'wear and tear' items like tires and brakes would require a trip to a depot level maintenance facility. The mind set makes sense since the big shirts @ the Kremlin figured an airplane or armored vehicle had an expected in combat life of around 100 hours before being damaged badly or destroyed. I imagine the same mindset was in effect in the U.S. during at least the early part of WW2 which would explain not primering areas like aft fuselages o B-17's, why bother with the time and expense since the Quartermasters opinion prevailed, 'once it goes over the counter, I donot want it back, I consider it spent'.
I don't know if that outlook has been altered in modern days as a new Mig or Sukoi costs a really big sack of Rubles.

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

In the late 50's the airline I was working at bought 10 new R-2800 engines still in the cans. I don't remember what the dash number was but they were approved to replace the CB/CA-15s on the Convairs 240s the airline operated. They all started having jug problems at about 400 hours. When the Pratt & Whitney Tech Rep was contacted about this, he said we were lucky. That model was built for the P-47 and life expectancy of the aircraft in combat was only about 100 hours and the engines were designed with that in mind!

Jack

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It's what you learn after you think you know it all, that counts.

that is what I have been searching the web for...hour many hours or missions the aircraft was expected to survive. Is this what was

meant "how long did aircraft last during WWII"? In the grand scheme of things, these aircraft were in essence disposable items....but

boy, prang an aeroplane on a training mission, or during an ultra low buzz down the middle of a sod runway an smacking that

unnecessary hump about halfway down the strip....man will the defecation impact with the rotary oscillator.....

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Depends on circumstances, if it's mechanical or battle damage induced that's usually forgiveable, if on the other hand it can be proved you were using your butt to keep the sun out of your eyes, that's another story.
try not to be an a$$hat!

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Ha! I was referring to the usual training mission flight where some new pilot was being an A$$hat and made a hard landing, forgot to put the gear down, or taxied into a parked aircraft. Granted there were many training missions where there was a disaster due to weather conditions, poor planning, the pilot/crew exceeded their capabilities, etc.
the other I was making reference to the late Great Don Gentile when he got just a little to low and mowed the grass at his home aerodrome and got sent home after.

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

FW 190 A8/R8 'Kolle Alaaf','Koln is alive',a specialized bomber killer,lasted circa three months of operations and was considered to be an absolute exception.

Also,the Swiss got 12 Me 109 G 6 in exchange for a radar equipped BF 110 that had strayed into their airspace.

All aircraft started developing engine troubles at around 15,yes,fifteen,hours running time.

The Daimler Benz representatives in Germany were questioned on the matter,the answer was that it was normal,exactly what they were expected to last.

Ciao,Francesco.

Thats not fair to use late war German stats. German Engineering was top notch. Their late war quality control.....not so much.

For instance it is a fact that Germany lost more Tiger Tanks to Fuel system leaks and other mechanical problems than to combat losses.

Yes,it's true.

Many of the airframes were spot primed,left partially unpainted,with many parts made of wood rather than metal,many very late 109's reportedly had a writing in the cockpit,it read'Attention,guns not fireproofed'(as yet).

Also you can suspect that the Swiss were given sub standard aircraft,they had been extorted,in exchange for the destruction of the 110,after all.

Ciao,Francesco.