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 Post subject: Ditched RB-17G
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Location: Niwot, Colorado, USA
My father was a radio operator on B17s in 1947/48. He ditched in a B-17 off of Alibijaban Island, Philippines in mid November 1948. I’m not sure where he was stationed at that time, but he used to talk frequently of Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

My father was the radio operator on a night mission that was training new navigators, and the story he used to tell was that the “real” navigator lost his bearings and they ran out of fuel before they could get back to base. Not sure how much stock I put in that story but I suppose stranger things have happened.

I have a photocopy of a photograph taken from the air on November 17, 19148 showing the plane resting in the shallows just off of the island. In the original photo I remember seeing a life raft pulled up right to the shore, but it is difficult to make out in the photocopy.

My dad used to talk about cranking a "Gibson Girl" hand crank radio once they got on shore and he told me that the radio signal was picked up by a commercial flight (I want to say China Airlines, but not sure). The entire crew was rescued the next day after spending night under a makeshift shelter.

There is the following caption near the top of the photo.
I-OH-5RGL-S -SPEC.PROJ. - 338RS - 16NOV.48 - 12" 500' 13º 21’/2N-122º 43E – ACCIDENT – RB-17G – ALIBIJABAN ISLAND –REST.

I also have a photocopy of what I believe is the same B-17, showing tail number 339271.

I also may have a listing of some of the crew members. I asked him one evening many, many years ago if he could remember the names of any of the flight crew. He could remember the pilot and several of the other crew members. I will search for the 3x5 card bearing these names and pass that information along.

Unfortunately I do not have the original photographs and my father passed away in late 2000.

If there is any interest, I’ll scan the photo copies and post them to the site.

I’m wondering if anyone on this forum knows of this same incident or knows of what may have become of the wreck.

Thanks,

Chester Shans


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Think this could be it?

Via Google Earth

Image

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To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: Image to this in 3 months: Image Help us get her all the way back Image

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
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http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:06 am 
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Looks like a crash report is available here:

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/1940sLate/1947Nov.htm

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To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: Image to this in 3 months: Image Help us get her all the way back Image

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'


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 Post subject: Google Earth View
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:21 am 
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Taigh,

I poked around on Google Earth and initially thought it might be the silhouette of a plane, but if you zoom out a little and look at the cloud layers, it looks to me like it just might be a wispy cloud.

I would love to believe otherwise.

Thanks for the reply,

Chester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:26 am 
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Welcome to the site, and YES I am sure there are lots of folks here interested in pics and stories. We live and breath B-17 fumes!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:41 am 
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Oh well, wishful thinking.

Taigh

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To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: Image to this in 3 months: Image Help us get her all the way back Image

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:09 am 
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It is amazing what you see, when you want to.., take my first wife.,. :shock:

The water on the other side of the reef would be fairly deep. Too deep to discern an aircraft.. even a WHITE one!!!! :lol:

Cool thread.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: B-17G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:18 am 
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Location: Niwot, Colorado, USA
I've scanned my two photocopies. With luck you should see a scanned image of a photocopy of a washed out photo of a B-17. I think this is the plane in which my father ditched in late 1948.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/ChesterS/339271.jpg

If you see HTML code then I've done something wrong.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:20 am 
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It came in fine! Thanks for sharing. Think it may be a FB-17G, at least that is what comes up in the accident report at

http://www.accident-report.com/Serials/1943i.htm

Pilot was Freeman, Wilbur H, a bit more info here, about half way down the page, date 471119

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/ ... 947Nov.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:38 am 
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Here is a scanned image of a photocopy of the air/sea rescue photo taken from the air on the day following my father's B-17 ditching experience. You probably can't see it in this image, but there is a liferaft to the left of the rudder near the shore.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/ChesterS/339271Accident.jpg


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 Post subject: RB-17G
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:53 am 
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Holedigger,

You are correct, but the remaining post war photo recon FB-17Gs were given the designation RB-17G. Sounds like there were only perhaps 10 or so of these creatures around at the time my father's plane went in the drink. You'll note, the caption on the photo of the ditched plane uses the RB-17G designation.

I'll likely try to get a copy of the accident report so I can get the real scoop on what when on.

Thanks,

Chester


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:54 am 
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Wow! great job setting her down in the surf. I see on the official AF Photo they do call it an RB-17 rather than an FB-17...just a typo......Ponder, ponder, ponder...must go do more research, got caught up in the re-designation spree!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:40 pm 
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Very cool thread guys!!!

Thanks!!!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Location: Niwot, Colorado, USA
All,

Taigh sent an interesting link to my initial inquiry. The link he sent was for the Aviation Archaeology web site. Although the link he posted lists what could be a similar incident, it is not the incident my father was involved in. A couple of things didn’t quite add up so I started poking around the site.


Taigh sent this link, which is for 1947.
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/1940sLate/1947Nov.htm
In looking at the possible combinations there was one promising entry but overall it just didn’t seem to fit the bill. One thing that bothered me was the pilot’s name. It just didn’t ring a bell with me.

I started putting together some custom searches on the Aviation Archaeology web site database. And after dinking around for about 10 minutes I found what I was looking for. If you are interested, follow this link:
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/dbadate.asp?thedate=481115&Submit2=Go
You will find the report listing for my father’s accident on the third entry from the bottom. I’m positive these are the details of his incident:

Date: 481115 - This is a day earlier than the date posted on the air/sea rescue photo caption
Aircraft

Type: RB-17G – Matches details on air/sea rescue photo

Serial
Number: 44-83867 – This is a piece of information that I didn’t have before

Sqdn: 33RS - Matches details on air/sea rescue photo caption

Group: 5RG - Matches details on air/sea rescue photo caption

Home
Base: Clark AFB, PI - I mentioned I wasn’t sure where he was stationed and besides mentioning Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea, he also used to mention Clark Field.

AF:

Action: DIToG - This is the kicker Ditched, Out of Gas!

D: 4 - Indicates the plane basically was a write off

Pilot: Smith, Paul K - I do remember he told me Paul Smith was the pilot!

Country: PI – Philippines it is

US State:

Location: 50YDS off Alibijabam IS 150M E PI – There is no doubt that this is the exact location

I will order the accident report and find out the details 61 years after the “water landing”.

Chester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:27 am 
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Here is some information I’ve gleaned from the first few pages of the accident report regarding the incident my father was involved in that resulted in the ditching of his plane.

I inquired about receiving a copy of this report after I found a reference to it at Aviation.Archaeology.com. I received this report from Craig Fuller at Aviation Archaeological Investigation and Research, just a few days after I sent the request.

This report was printed from microfiche records and for the most part the report is pretty legible. It is loaded with military abbreviations and has a number of handwritten notes in borders, etc and what may be handwritten corrections or crossed out sections.

The report is typed on “War Department, AAF Form No. 14, Rev. 1, Oct. ’44, Army Air Forces Report of Major Accident”. A note at the top of the first page indicates “RESTRICTED WHEN ENTRIES ARE MADE HEREON”.

There is something like 100 pages in the report. Besides the official AAF Form No. 14 form information there are also statements of the flight crew and the passenger, aircraft flight reports, numerous exhibits, summaries, radio logs, aeronautical charts, and conclusions from various review boards.

The first few pages of this report lists general information about the aircraft involved in the accident, the location, information about the pilot and his flying experience and the personnel involved.


The key parts:
Section A – General Information
Type, model and series: RB-17G
Place of Accident – State, County, Nearest Town, Distance and Direction From Same: Alibijaban Island, 190 MI, SE of CAFB.
Was Collision With Other Aircraft: No
AF No of Aircraft Involved: #44-83867
Date: 15 Nov 48
Hour and Time Zone: 20:25Z

Section B – Aircraft
Aircraft No: #44-83867
Type Model Series: RB-17 G
Home Station: Clark Air Force Base
Air Force Or Command: FEAF
Subcommand: 13th AF
Wing: 18th Ftr
Group No and Type: 5th Ron
Squadron: 338th Ron
Date of Manufacture: 7 Jul 45
Date Last Overhaul: New

Section C – Operator
[b]Last Name First Name Middle Initial: SMITH PAUL K.
Grade: [/b]1st Lt
[b]Branch: USAF
Sex: [/b]M
Age: 28

Section D– Operators Flying Experience
Total Hours: 2651:25
Hours This Type: 2013:00
Hours This Model: 485:25
Hours Last 90 Days: 84:50
Hours Last 30 Days: 50:25
Hours Last 24 Hours: 16:35

Section E– Personnel Involved:
Capt. Henry L. Choate
Capt. Charles M. Van Dusen
1st. Lt. James C. Loggins
S/Sgt. Chester F. Shans
S/Sgt. Eugene Gregory
S/Sgt. Lyle D. Kirk
S/Sgt. Robert B. Thomas
Maj. Allen C. Forbes
1st. Lt. Waldo N. Blackman
S/Sgt. Boris C. Pepoff
Civilian Passenger Walter S. Sullivan (N.Y. Times Correspondent)

Report Section F: Damage
Damage to aircraft: Major Damage (4 handwritten in)
Damage to engines: 1 - Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 2- Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 3- Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 4- Major Damage (4 handwritten in)
Damage to propeller: 1 - Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 2- Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 3- Major Damage (4 handwritten in), 4- Major Damage (4 handwritten in)

Report Section G – Power Plant Failure
Engine model: R-1820-97 (4, all new)
Engine numbers: SW-044096, SW-045502, SW-043394 and SW- 044662
Engine hours: 188:45, 102:50 120:55 and 226:45 respectfully
Propellers: Hamilton Standard Hydramatic (4, all new) – Note there is a proofreading spelling error mark over this entry. The entry should read Hamilton Standard Hydromatic.
Statement of Engineering Officer, Mechanical and Others as to What Failed and Probable Reason Why: Not a factor.
Octane Rating of Fuel: 100

Report Section H – AIRFRAME, LANDING GEAR, OR OTHER MATERIAL
Determine the Material Failure, Including Statement of Kind of Flight at the Time of Failure: Not a factor.


One of several summaries of the incident:
On 15 November 1948, 1st Lt Paul K Smith, instructor pilot of aircraft RB-17 #83867 gave a thorough emergency procedure briefing to all crew members and passengers before the aircraft departed Port Moresby for Clark Air Force Base via Wewak.

The aircraft landed at Wewak at 0550Z, refueled, and departed Wewak at 0650Z on a heading of 304 degrees with twelve (12) persons and 3,180 gallon of gasoline aboard.

At nightfall the navigator, 1st Lt James C. Loggins, removed his sextant from its case to obtain celestial fixes, but found that the bubble in the sextant was out of order. He attempted to get a bubble in the sextant by normal methods, but could not do so. He examined the bubble chamber and found that all the liquid had leaked out. The navigator also discovered that the fluxgate compass was inoperative, the navigator’s airspeed meter read 15 MPH lower that the pilot’s airspeed indicator, and that the trailing antenna was inoperative. The Loran without a trailing antenna gave very poor reception, so that the navigator had to rely on D.R. He determined his heading b using the predicted winds obtained at Port Moresby. A heading of 311 degrees was used throughout most of the flight. Land recognition was impossible do to a low cloud layer of 6 to 8 tenths stratocumulus.

After approximately seven (7) hours and forty-five (45) minutes out of Wewak, the pilot picked up a weak “A” signal on Manila Range. He continued oh a heading of 311 degrees and at approximately 1630Z he was informed by the navigator that he should be approximately 100 miles from Clark Field. The pilot then informed the navigator that he would fly the range into Clark.

Lt. Smith called Manila Control and informed them that he was approximately 100 miles out and near the south legs of the Manila Range. Manila Control acknowledged the call and cleared the aircraft to Clark Tower for a VFR let-down. However, at this time the pilot had crossed into an “N” quadrant so he corrected to a heading of 356 degrees. He flew into this heading for ten (10) minutes, then correct to a new heading of 40 degrees. He was not sure now which “N” quadrant he was in so after flying twenty (20) minutes he corrected to 45 degrees. He flew this heading for twenty (20) minutes and checked for build or fade. He received no favorable results so he turned to a heading of 25 degrees and checked again for a build or fade. After twenty (20) minutes on a heading of 25 degrees and failing to receive a build or fade, the pilot turned to a new heading of 205 degrees.

At this time the radio operator informed the pilot that he had difficulty getting the HC-3 to give a QDM. So the pilot tried the radio compass to get a null, but static prohibited any good results. The automatic and manual control was inoperative. Lt. Smith then called Manila Control and asked them to contact Clark Field for a QDM.

After flying on a heading of 205 degrees for twenty-five (25) minutes, Manila Control called aircraft #83867 and told them that a QDM had been obtained and for the pilot to steer 136 degrees. The pilot acknowledged the call and also informed Manila Control that he was flying into an “A” quadrant. However, he elected to fly the QDM course of 136 degrees. He flew this course for one hour, then a new QDM of 286 degrees was given by Manila Control at 1940Z.

The aircraft’s gasoline supply was nearly exhausted by this time, and number one engine was feathered due to lack of fuel pressure.

Lt. Smith informed Manila Control that the aircraft would have to be ditched. The pilot prepared the passengers for ditching and then descended through an area of broken clouds. He sighted Alibijaban Island where he ditched the aircraft fifty (50) yards off the northeast shore of the Island at 2025Z, 15 November 1948.

Two of the passengers, Mr. Walter S. Sullivan, Jr. and Staff Sergeant Chester F. Shans, were injured when the plane crashed.

At 0515Z, 16 November 1948, a commercial airliner sighted the aircraft and informed Clark Field by radio. Clark dispatched the necessary aircraft and evacuated the crew and passengers.

Upon consideration of the facts presented during this investigation, the boards find the accident attributed to the following causes:

1. Pilot error 70%
2. Communications personnel error 30%
3. Contributing factors are listed below:
a. Aircraft took off with trailing antenna inoperative
b. Navigator did not pre-flight sextant, before take off of flight.
c. Pilot and navigator airspeed indicator differed by 10 MPH.
d. Pilot failed to perform normal beam recognition procedure
e. Training D.F. station gave pilot erroneous Q.D.M. heading.
f. Pilot did not effect minimum cruise control immediately upon encountering difficulty during range orientation.
g. Communications personnel during the time of the emergency were very inefficient in handling traffic between aircraft and ground.
h. The pilot did not fly out the E.T.A. as determined by the navigator but chose to orient himself on the Manila range before the E.T.A.

So from the first read, it looks like this was not a navigational training flight. Several factors came into play but navigational problems are certainly one of the key reasons for the loss of the plane.

If others are interested, I can continue to post details.

Chester


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