Warbird Information Exchange

I read an article (see quote below) where the salvage ship Deep Sea found 5 avengers in 1991 completely intact in 600' of water in the Bermuda triangle area. They turned out NOT to be the "famous" 5 avengers lost in a 1945 training mission lead by Lt. Taylor.

Does anyone have any information on whether the Navy did anything about the discovery?

article:





regards,

t~

I don't have any additional information, but thie did stick out immediately when I read the report:



What official government committee? Name of the committee? Name of the report?

As someone who works in government, and prepares/reads all kinds of reports like this all the time, this looks fishy to me. If I were quoting some absurd governmental report, I would name it by-name.

Besides, what reasonaly aviation-minded government group would use the term 'models'? Mockup, perhaps, or replica.

It smacks of someone promoting some big conspiracy from the government.

Second, the idea that there are airplanes sunk 10 miles off shore and used for bombing exercises is COMPLETELY plausible.

So...if they were to produce a copy of this government report -- or at least name it so we could obtain a copy and read it -- I think their claims would have a lot more weight.

A very good documentary about the myth of the Bermuda Triangle aired on the Discovery Channel a couple of weeks ago. It included an investigation of these five very aircraft and how they got where they are. Through their research they proved positively that these were not the "Famous Five" Avengers. With some "Scientific" experimentation and research, they disproved some theories and myths about how these aircraft came to rest were they did also opened the door for some plausible explanations as to aircraft disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle in general. Considering it was TV, it was pretty good food for thought. No weegee boards, black cats or the boogie man!

Randy,

I felt that this article was very ambigious as well, hence I thought I'd present it to the WIX community with its domain of experts on matters of this nature.

The source site is as follows: http://www.ufoarea.com/bermuda_mystery.html

Their source is PRAVDA-> http://english.pravda.ru/

Regards,

t~

Hey, if they are models then the Navy won't have any problems with us going and bringing them up! We'll just use that government report as our evidence.

Seriously though, this week the National Geographic Channel is airing a documentary on Flight 19. From the preview footage I saw it looks like they are going to retrace the route in a TBM!
From their website:
Monday, August 29, 2005, at 10P

NGC's Most Amazing
Bermuda Triangle [TV-G]
Naked Science looks into Flight 19, legendary victim of the Bermuda Triangle, by retracing its exact route. Will the same instrument trouble and tragedy take hold?

Also airs:
Tuesday, August 30, 1:00A
Saturday, September 3, 3:00P

also see:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/chann ... tions.html

Cheers.

Copy...that says a lot.

I lived in FLL for a few yrs and my father is one of the high ups at the airport. He told me once that if he had a nickel for every tom dick and harry that called saying that they found flight 19 that he would be rich!!! There were a LOT of TBM's flying out of NAS FLL. I am sure that they lost more than 5!!

One showed up one summer in the everglades after a fire..........OMG.......news flash.......possible flight 19 airplane found in the everglades!!!!!

Hell I found parts to one at one of the aux fields............maybe thats it!!

When there found, it will be by someone who is not looking for them.

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Long Live the N3N-3 "The Last US Military Bi-Plane" 1940-1959
Badmouthing Stearmans on WIX since 2005

all i know is that they initially announced the find & the media sensationalized it in true "national enquirer" style, i still followed the story like a fly to doo doo. next thing i knew the story fell off the planet!!! uncle sam just swept it under the rug. i'm not trying to stir up a bee hive, but i smell a cover up rat to some degree. i'm no blithering idiot, & i don't think it's flt 19 either, but there was nothing much more pursued after that & after all these years. i appreciate the enlightenment from the other thread contributors... but to me it's all speculation. let's see some hard copy!!! regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

What? Because the media isn't reporting it anymore, it's automatically a government cover up? Sorry, I don't follow your logic.

hi randy, i understand what your driving at point wise, but i've always considered myself a well read guy in regard to current events / news, etc, not to mention i have subscribed to at least 7 aviation related magazines / periodicals since the avenger mystery of the 90's. i honestly can't answer you, i looked far & wide for additional info for some time, & to me the whole thing just vanished from the media like flt 19 itself. i can tell you this much.... you or others may have been in the information loop better than i at the time because that was a "b.c." period for me. (before computer) i got my 1st computer in 1999, so if that's the case i stand corrected, as i always do when i'm wrong or misinformed which is often on alot of topics. i only feel the issue was swept under the rug because the govt always tries to avoid controversy in regard to the ufo theory of flt 19 as portrayed in the spielberg movie close encounters. i don't go for that b.s. theory either, but let's face it..... it brings out the biggest nuts in the bowl, & the govt as well as myself have no head ache tollerance for those people, even though they have that right to believe. i honestly believe the close encounters scene with the avengers was cool in the way it was shot, but long term it destroyed alot of the logic with the basic public as to what happened to the flight, & how to actually solve the mystery in a sensible & historically responsible fashion. regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Tom -

No, I certainly don't know any more about it than you do...I am just skeptical when people start to cry 'conspiracy' with regard to the US military.

Why?

Well, having served in the USAF for the last 10 years, the are two things that I feel like I can comfortably say based on experience:

One: the way the military is, and the way the *people* in the military are, it would be extremely difficult to keep a lid on some kind of conspiracy. You can cite programs like the SR-71 and F-117 as examples of how programs have managed to remain secret for years and years, but those programs involved *billions* of dollars and were because of active weapon systems. Although it is certainly *possible* that there are massive cover-ups about things like Roswell and Flight 19 and all that, I highly doubt the military's ability to competently keep something like that covered up for that long.

Two: People in the government are just that...people. It is easy to think of the government as this huge monolothic thing made up of faceless, nameless workers for the collective but it is NOT. I'm a 'governemt worker' and I haven't had some kind of lobotomy that makes me immediately willing to think and perform against the public at large. If there were information out there which the gov't had control of, I'm CERTAIN that people would do all they can to release that information. I have worked in a FOIA office, and you would be surprised at how hard people in the office go to try and release as much info as legally possible.

So...based on these two things, I believe that -- regardless of the topic -- there is not some big government conspiracy out there because the government is too stupid to keep it under wraps for any length of time and people working in that government would eventually leak any information of significance.

So, why do I believe that things like UFOs at Roswell could have happened, yet the US military is really not guilty of currently trying to cover anything up?

Guys, the military does not keep as good of records as you might think. Information flow is very bad when personnel get replaced in jobs frequently. In my current job, I only have a record of what happened going back about 2 years or so. If a Congressional Committee ordered me to tell them what happened in my particular post in 1975, there is nooooo possible way that I would ever be able to tell them, even if I WANTED to.

Yet, if there were some kind of conspiracy theory attached to my job position, "they" would see my lack of ability to testify as to what happened as just further evidence of a cover up.

So, it's entirely possible that there was a coverup of something 50 years ago, but if people attempted to find out what it's about today there would be no way to know -- the info is long gone, and anyone who knew anything about it is also long gone.

very valid points from a perspective that only a military person could clarify. pretty cool reply randy!! regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!