Vultee P-66s In India

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:57 pm

P-66 Vangards at Karacki, India 1942

shoki · **Posted:** Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:02 pm

Are they in American markings? If so who is flying them?

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:20 pm

Could it be 'Karachi'? Now Pakistan?

Mgawa · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:43 am

It have US star under the wing. Is this delivery route to China? And what is this green color over it? It is very intensive and deep.

Thank you very much for sharing of this very nice image

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:54 am

I would assume the green is a variation of OD. Great photo, Jack..I've never seen one of Vanguards in color.

SN

Mgawa · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:10 am

So except of two official Olive Drab, how many variation is known and available chip samples?

Cheers

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:44 pm

The Vultee P-66 airplanes were originally built for an order to Sweden; the contract was cancelled by the US and the airplanes were then slated to go to the RAF. After Pearl Harbor, the airplanes were taken up by the US Army Air Forces and given the designation P-66 and assigned AAF serial numbers 42-6832 thru 42-6975.

The airplanes, some in RAF camo, were then diverted to California in early 1942 for use by the 14th PG for West Coast defense. The airplanes were then taken back and diverted for use in China. Most were flown to New York or back to Downey, California, for crating and shipping to Karachi, India (there was no Pakistan in 1942). Several were lost in accidents in the US (at least two were fatal).

The airplanes were crated and transported by sea to Karachi and then assembled by Vultee employees and AAF personnel in the large dirigible hangar at Karachi. The airplanes were test flown and ferried by mostly civilian test pilots, many of whom were employees of Vultee. There were several accidents involving Vultee pilots, at least one was fatal--the result of a grudge buzzing by a disgruntled Vultee employee. USAAF pilots also test flew the airplanes before transfer to the Chinese. USAAF and Vultee pilots were tasked to train inexperienced Chinese Air Force personnel to fly the P-66 with uneven results. Many of these airplanes were destroyed by the very green Chinese pilots who were training in them.

TonyM.

Stoney · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:16 pm

Some where in the ocean are 39 of them that were sunk by a U boat.
I met a former Chinese AF pilot at OSH about 8 years ago that saw some in China after the war, rumor has it that they were buried to save them from the reds.
If I had the money, I'd build one out of some BT-13 parts. A guy in ID sez he is building one that way.

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:20 pm

Also, the airplane in Jack's photo lacks a red center in the US insignia, indicating that this photo was taken in the latter half of 1942.

TonyM.

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:35 pm

Stoney wrote:

I met a former Chinese AF pilot at OSH about 8 years ago that saw some in China after the war, rumor has it that they were buried to save them from the reds.

I have heard something like that too.

Supposedly, there were several P-66 airplanes, still in crates, that were hidden in caves for the upcoming civil war. That would be a great find. Who knows, it could be true. They may still exist in crate and waiting to be found. Doubtful, but possible.

TonyM

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:49 pm

Quote:

lacks a red center in the US insignia, indicating that this photo was taken in the latter half of 1942.

could be has early has May-June 42

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:34 pm

Combined Chief of Staff ordered the removal of the red dot (and red and white rudder stripes) on 12 May 1942; how long it took for field commanders to comply is another story. Most did so as soon at it could be accomplished. By August of 1942 almost all aircraft in the field were in compliance. On the other hand, many aircraft (AAF and USN) that participated in the Battle of Midway, in June 1942, still retained the red dot.

See
AIR FORCE COLORS
VOLUME I 1926-1942
by Dana Bell

TonyM

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:18 pm

Quote:

On the other hand, many aircraft (AAF and USN) that participated in the Battle of Midway, in June 1942, still retained the red dot.

Boy, I'll take that Pespi challange! I've never seen a single photo of a a/c participating in the Battle of Midway with the red dot or tail stripes.

F4F of VMF-221 flown by John Carey

SBD on the Yorktown

TBD launches from the Big E.

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:59 pm

Never said anything about the rudder stripes at Midway, just the red dot.

Perhaps I was thinking of the Battle of the Coral Sea.

TonyM.

TonyM · **Posted:** Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:16 pm

Jack,

Looks like I owe you Pepsi; the images I was thinking of were Coral Sea rather than Midway.
Thanks.
TonyM

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