Mystery B-17?

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2645

Any ideas on this B-17? Believe the picture was taken at Marine Corps Base Quantico in 1945.

JohnB · **Posted:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:51 pm

Sounds like a job for Scott Thompson.
In checking the civil register in his Final Cut, very few B-17s had a 4-digit N number.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2645

JohnB wrote:

Sounds like a job for Scott Thompson.
In checking the civil register in his Final Cut, very few B-17s had a 4-digit N number.

It's not civilian or an "N" number, it's the serial number.

Regards,

JohnB · **Posted:** Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:11 pm

If so it's odd paint for even a VB-17....and the tail number should have more numbers in it.
With the exception of two production blocks (one each from Douglas and Vega...each of 1000 aircraft, plus a small block 80 aircraft early in the Douglas run...so there is some wiggle room there

) B-17Gs would have a 6 or 7 digit tail number.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2645

JohnB wrote:

If so it's odd paint for even a VB-17....and the tail number should have more numbers in it.
With the exception of two production blocks (one each from Douglas and Vega...each of 1000 aircraft, plus a small block 80 aircraft early in the Douglas run...so there is some wiggle room there

) B-17Gs would have a 6 or 7 digit tail number.

Maybe it's a BuNo?

WallyB · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:45 am

JohnB wrote:

If so it's odd paint for even a VB-17....and the tail number should have more numbers in it.
With the exception of two production blocks (one each from Douglas and Vega...each of 1000 aircraft, plus a small block 80 aircraft early in the Douglas run...so there is some wiggle room there

) B-17Gs would have a 6 or 7 digit tail number.

Looks like 44-8526 or 44-8756 to me, but my eyes are unreliable. Google turns up a single mission reference for each, but this looks like some kind of 'special' airplane likely post-war. Can't find anything on Joe Baugher's list within those four-digit 44-xxxx blocks which seems to qualify.

No PB-1s in the 40000 series of BuNos.

bipe215 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:50 am

If you step back from the monitor it sure looks like 48926 which was a 487th ship returned to Charleston Oct 26, 1945 and then sent to Walnut Ridge in Aug 1946. Nothing to explain that paint job though, at least in Freeman and Osborne's book.

Steve

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

What's up with the giant antenna between the front cockpit windows? Could this be a DB-17?

Tiger Tim · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:44 am

Could the uniforms everyone's wearing help to date the photo? From the way everyone's looking at the B-17 I'd guess it wasn't a regular at whatever airport it's parked at...

-Tim

51fixer · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:35 am

Quantico isn't to far from Langley and the tail stripe reminded me at first of the NACA stripe. I don't know where OSS/CIA were headquartered at the time but they were probably in the neighborhood.
Lots of boxes in the nose with covers on and that antenna suggest usage in some radio capacity. Whether sending out or receiving I don't know.
Interesting photo.

Nathan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:44 am

To me it look like either:

42525
42524
42526

:?:

or 43 324?

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:27 pm

I can't add anything here except to suggest that I don't think it is a civil airplane based on the apparent serial number, which I think is 485XX or 465XX. Unfortunately, using the Freeman/Osborne book B-17 Story with its serial listing, nothing seems to match up. Most in those series were used in combat and either were lost in action or went to the scrapyard afterwards.

Interesting photo...it would be nice to figure it out.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:45 pm

According to the U of Texas Mc Dermott Library files on CIA aircraft, the sneaky guys used 2 B-17G-DO's, 44-85531 and 44 83785. Both @ one time operated or 'owned' by Atlantic General Enterprises of Virginia. Bogus tail numbers and weird off the wall 'fleet' numbers were put on these aircraft in pursuit of whatever it was that wasn't going on here, keep moving please.
85531 was N 809Z and was used with the FULTON system tests and showed up in a James Bond film in the final scenes looking for 007 and I think Jill St John. Later it became a fire bomber and now resides in the EVERGREEN MUSEUM in Mc Minnville OR. fully restored.
Those were the known 'spook' B-17's but there could have been others contracted for 'one offs' which might help explain the strange serial number and odd striping job. EVERGREEN used to keep a 'ready' 727-100 that was all painted in fleet colors but had no logos and no N #- if it was needed, a mechanic would go out with a stencil and rattle can a registration number onto the fuselage , and maybe an 'airline' logo might be added, all of which could be removed with a bucketful of thinner soaked rags.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:51 pm

I think what is painted on the airplane is a valid serial number....we just can't make it out accurately. I wouldn't think it was a "covert" airplane...just an unusually marked one. There were a lot of B-17 around then and many had some wierd markings. Taigh can probably identify what the antenna might be used for...perhaps it is either an antenna mast or some type of low frequency antenna.

Perhaps a side view will show up...that would answer most of the questions.

The CIA was not established until 1947 for what ever that is worth.

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Where, exactly, did the original poster come up with this photo?

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