Warbird Information Exchange

Evidently the USMC crashes recently triggered this?

From Airshowstuffblog.com

Art Nalls’ Sea Harrier has quietly been removed the the South Shore Airshow lineup. Following the unrelated crashes of two Marine Corps Harriers over the past couple of months, inside sources have told AirshowStuff that Art Nalls was asked not to attend as a performer as a result of these recent incidents. The Sea Harrier had been scheduled to attend four more shows this season: the Milwaukee Air and Water Show, Cleveland, and Winston Salem along with the South Shore airshow.

The South Shore Airshow, which in previous years was hosted at a public beach on the shores of Lake Michigan in Gary, Indiana, has been moved this year to Fair Oaks Farms, one hour south of Gary. It is scheduled for July 11-13. The move was highly controversial when it was announced, with many questioning the distance of the move. Fair Oaks Farms is a rural farm and tourist attraction with features such as The Dairy Adventure, The Pig Adventure, Fair Oaks Farms Cafe, and Mooville.

Sound off airshow fans! Do you think it makes sense to cancel the Sea Harrier performance as a result of these recent crashes? Will this cancellation affect your decision to attend the show?

- Patrick Barron

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Rich Palmer

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I think it would make sense to cancel if the cause of the accidents are being investigated and Art is worried he'll have the same problem with his Harrier. If it's a mechanical / safety issue then yeah it makes sense to cancel until a solution can be found. If it's just because two Harriers recently crashed that may be a little different. Again, it could simply be that Art just wanted to cancel, and we have to respect that decision. If that is the case. But I have no real clue as to why.

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I'm unsure if his model of Sea Harrier has the same engine model or equipment that the modern USMC is using.
The Sea Harrier is all UK parts.
I wonder what the breakdown is for the ones the USMC is using?

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Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

If his airplane is a different mark then it would be irrelevant to the current crashes. Sounds more like a kneejerk reaction

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It would depend on which component failed, wouldn't it?

It sounds like you're blaming the American parts for the recent crashes...really?
Do they have a common cause (if fact, does anyone even know that yet)?

The USMC flies Harrier IIs with many McDD parts...
It depends upon what mark of Sea Harrier it is...if it's a very early aircraft, it's all UK.
If it's later, it too has MCDD parts like the wing.
All late model Harriers have US parts...in fact MCDD designed (and probably financed) the new wing following the UKs failure to do so.

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I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

An F-18 was lost a couple of weeks ago off the coast of California. If we loose another this summer, will shows cancel the Blue Angels? I doubt it...

Art's Sea Harrier is a very early Sea Harrier (Development aircraft, I believe the second Sea Harrier), so actually has more in common with the early GR.1/GR.3/AV-8A than the later AV-8B's the USMC are still using. Lots of differnces between the first generation and second generation harriers, with different fuselages, wings, avionics etc. Basically an entirely new aircraft although similar in overall layout. The Sea Harrier has the smaller all metal wing of the GR.3/AV-8A series, not the larger McD "plastic" wing that came with the second generation. The Sea Harrier is pretty close to a GR.3 Harrier, with a raised cockpit, nose radar, avionics and few other maritime mods- all UK. Sea Harriers never got the big wing of the AV-8B/Gr.5/7/9 series. Totally different aircraft. The final Harriers operated by the UK Air Force and Navy were Gr.7 and Gr.9 Harriers (similar to the AV-8B Harrier II). The true Sea Harriers were retired a few years earlier. The Pegasus engine is common to all of the harrier family, but has gone through many models/marks through the years, mostly with thrust increases. Art's Sea Harrier does not have the same engine model/mark as the current AV-8B fleet.

I can see airshow organizers getting nervous, but seems like the recent cancellation is unwarrented if due to the recent AV-8B crash in California. I could see organizers at a USMC base or USN base being more nervous, but a show in the rural midwest is hardly Harrier country.

I still very much want to see this Sea Harrier- wish they would update their website with planned appearances. Really an accomplishment with him getting this bird flying- well done!

I'd say your drawing a conclusion I'm not making.
I'm not blaming anybody for anything except that organizers of this show seem to have pulled a great exhibition from their lineup for what appears to be a percieved avoidance of risk.
I was trying to start a discussion that would shed light on the differences between the Harrier operated by Art Nallis and those operated by the USMC. Something the show organizers didn't seem to do.
I don't understand where my statements implicate US parts? Maybe asking for a breakdown of what parts on the AV-8B are US design and build vs the UK designed parts was perceived as US parts Breakdown while UK parts don't. If so that wasn't my intent.
Hoping I've cleared myself of wrongdoing.

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Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

Great info, Thx

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Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

The AV-8A had a lot of accidents in Marine Corps service. I worked on A-4E's but the Harrier A models were notorious for hydraulic leaks and problems. NO doubt human error were the cause of many accidents but I know they lost a few due to the engine's huge thirst for fuel and the small fuel capacity of the Harrier(low altitude/ high fuel consumption). THere was a huge chain (think "bicycle/' chain in appearance) that connected the forward nozzles to the rear nozzles. I was told this could get out of synch and cause an immediate landing crash. One common problem was the Harrier's habit of blowing tires when landing vertically. I think this actually happened at Oshkosh one year. It was quite common.
The "B" model was much lighter, had more range and a longer wing. It had a bigger canopy with much better visibility for VTOL landings. But there was one improvement that made it much more safer and easier to fly than the "A " model.
When landing/ taking off in the VTOL configuration the Harrier floats on a cushion of air. It's supposed to stay on that self created column of air while transitioning from forward movement to stationary or from stationary to the forward speed it needs to assume fixed wing airplane mode of flight. The larger wing helped increase the size of the cushion and made it easier to stay on that column of air. Most importantly there is a triangular shaped box on the bottom of the fuselage that helps direct this air mass and position the Harrier to help it stay on the column of air. Enlarging this was crucial to make the B model easier to operate from the A models and early Harriers.
The early Harriers could fall off, or out of this column resulting in at best a hard landing, or at worst exploding when hitting the ground. THe fuselage could rotate on it's side and a few Marine pilots attempting to eject, but the aircraft rolled on its side or inverted.

So the Gary, Indiana Farmville Airshow Bonanza won't have a Sea Harrier?

Big deal.

I'm sure some other show that weekend would love to have Art's Sea Harrier in their lineup. Shouldn't be too hard to book it somewhere else, especially these days (it's a JET!).

Just my $.02.

Rob

Inside source? That doesn't tell me the person who spoke up is qualified to be explaining anything as to why Art's Harrier was removed. It could also be a money issue. It is not cheap to have a jet perform at an event.

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Due to flooding, the South Shore Airshow has been cancelled...
http://www.southshorecva.com/airshow/

The front nozzles do indeed rotate with the use of a chains which iare turned by a drive shaft cog on each side . However that chain only works the front. The rear nozzles are rotated by drive shafts . So the system is connected but there is no chain running between front and back.