Ranch Hand C-123's- new report

sandiego89 · **Joined:** Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm **Posts:** 1201

New report out on agent orange exposure to C-123 crews after the aircraft were used for different missions post-war. Seems the dioxin was quite persistant. Emotional subject, so avoiding politics and just looking at the WIX side, Appendix b lists known airframes. Looks like some Ranch Hand birds went to museums (including "Patches" at Dayton) and foreign operators, and the "quarantined" ones (my words) at Davis-Monthan listed as "destroyed" in 2010. Unsure if any ex-Ranch hand 123's made it to civil service?

Airframe list begins on page 75

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?recor ... 48&page=78

flightsimer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:32 pm

Not sure why our aircraft is listed as it never was outfitted with Ranch Hand equipment. It was always based in the US and used as a training bird throughout the country.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:38 pm

I believe 664 was converted, and she did fly overseas.

flightsimer · **Posted:** Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:23 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

I believe 664 was converted, and she did fly overseas.

Nope, always stateside Chris. There are two histories floating out on the net. One says that she was a RH aircraft an was transferred to the VNAF and the other, which is based off the aircraft card says it was always stateside and used as a crew trainer.

Our President who is also the A/C commander actually had time in it while it was in active service. There is no indications on the airframe that it was ever outfitted with RH equipment. No plumbing, no access points or mounting points, nothing.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:15 am

The Air Heritage website states that it went to Ranch hand modification at Wright Patterson AFB. The story I had been told by Virgil is that she did go over seas, and that there is a block of time that is not accounted for in her history correctly.

flightsimer · **Posted:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:30 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

The Air Heritage website states that it went to Ranch hand modification at Wright Patterson AFB. The story I had been told by Virgil is that she did go over seas, and that there is a block of time that is not accounted for in her history correctly.

I believe Virgil told me it never was, as once they were at a show and was gettting chastised by a spectator because we have the Vietnam ribbon over the front entry door. She asked us if it saw service in Vietnam and when he said no, she said then it should not be on the plane. But he said it's there in honor of those that were and the men who flew them.

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

I was curious about this news as I know the CG had 123's over that way. I did some asking around to our CG aircraft historian...who was also over in VN. Interesting story about his experience.

Quote:

My records show that all 10 of the ex-USAF C-123B airframes were in USCG service prior to the first AF models arrival in

Viet Nam and therefore never carried the hardware mod as a spray plane. Additionally, all but 2 of the 123Bs continued in

CG service after the U.S. withdrew the spray planes from the theater - - - 1972 time frame with the last one returned to the

AF in September 1973 Two CG machines went back to the USAF in June 1969 and eventually wound up with the Royal

Thai AF and operated a transports. Only one airframe, 55-4541, was not returned to the AF as it crashed at Guam on a

training flight and was relegated to the base fire pit as a training aid for the base crash crew.

As a side note, in the 3/66 through 4/67 time frame while I was at Da Nang, we ATC types were operationally under the

C.O. of the 1st Marine Air Wing and this fine gentleman, BGEN XXXXXXXX, spread us all over the place so we would not

be in a concentrated single billeting area that could have left the 1st MAW a controller-less operation should Charlie get

lucky with his mortars and rockets. I had the good fortune to draw a 12 man squad tent for my crew that were assigned

to the radar van (Approach/Departure/GCA). The good General even threw in 24-hour armed Marines for our security.

He also did not want a bunch of USAF weenies running around with guns and not knowing which end the bullets came

out of.

Since anything that hit the ground would grow to 3 feet very quickly in the warm and moist environment, we collected used cargo

pallets from the flight line and had a beautiful wood floor - - - but weeds still grew at a rapid speed in their attempt to take

over the entire livable tent area. Hence, we would beg the folks at the 311th TCS, better known as RANCH HAND, for

some "weed killer" (aka: AGENT ORANGE) that they normally sprayed over indian country - - - about 10 gallons every

2-3 weeks and poured same over our fancy wooden floor. It sure stopped the wild weed growth, snakes, and other

critters that tried to take over our tent.

To best of my knowledge, none of my guys suffered any ill effects. Lucky, I guess, but also weed free.

wendovertom · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:57 am

side note here - where would the data plate be located on the C-123?

We have one here in Wendover that was used by the film company that made "Con-Air". The plane looks ok but really was hacked up quite extensively. Anyway it is painted with spurious markings to match the flying C-123 in the movie and I have never really thought about the actual ID of the plane.

Thanks,

Tom P.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:27 am

The Air Heritage C-123 went to Wright Pat for conversion to UC-123 sprayer, and then drops off any records for 3 years.

quemerford · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:19 pm **Posts:** 1615

mustangdriver wrote:

The Air Heritage C-123 went to Wright Pat for conversion to UC-123 sprayer, and then drops off any records for 3 years.

I have to disagree: I'm just looking at its record cards now and I don't see that at all.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:00 pm

From the Air Heritage web site

January 1966: To Aeronautical Systems Division (AFSC) Wright-Patterson AFB (To designation UC-123B, defoliant configuration)

April 1969: To Hayes Aircraft, Napier Field Dothan, AL

quemerford · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:19 pm **Posts:** 1615

mustangdriver wrote:

From the Air Heritage web site

January 1966: To Aeronautical Systems Division (AFSC) Wright-Patterson AFB (To designation UC-123B, defoliant configuration)

April 1969: To Hayes Aircraft, Napier Field Dothan, AL

The Museum's history is missing a great deal, and misleading in other places ('deployed' to Wright-Patt in 1962, when it was just a transient maint stop, for instance).

The following I have just transcribed from the aircraft's record card, i.e. primary source data:

Built at Fairchild Hagerstown
Available 18Apr56
Accepted 02May56
Delivered 04May56

Delivered to 513th TFW Gp Sewart AFB [must be TCGp?] 04May56 (combat ready)
Middletown AMA Olmsted AFB 23Nov56 (depot work/crash damaged)
551st AEW&Control Wg Otis AFB 24Mar58 (tactical unit support)
Fairchild, St Augustine 07Aug58 (contract work)
551st AEW&Control Wg Otis AFB 29Aug58 (storage-coccooned)
4650 TSM Det [should be TCW?] Stewart AFB 09Oct59 (storage-coccooned)
4650th Combat Support Det Stewart AFB 15Nov59 (storage-coccooned)
4603rd Consolidated Logistics Maint Sqn Stewart AFB 01Mar60 (storage-coccooned)
354th Tactical Fighter Wg Myrtle Beach AFB 13Apr60 (transient work)
4603rd CLM Sqn Stewart AFB 14Apr60 (storage-coccooned)
Middletown AMA Olmsted AFB 13May60 (depot work)
4603rd CLM Sqn Stewart AFB 05Jul60 (storage-coccooned)
Middletown AMA Olmsted AFB 18May62 (depot work)
4603rd Air Base Gp Stewart AFB (unit renamed) 25May62 (storage-coccooned)
Fairchild, St Augustine 11Oct62 (depot work)
4603rd ABGp Stewart AFB 01Nov62 (storage-coccooned)
Middletown AMA Olmsted AFB 12Dec62 (depot work)
4603rd ABGp Stewart AFB 06Feb63 (storage-coccooned)
2750th Air Base Wg Wright Patterson AFB 20Aug63 (transient work)
460th ABGp St Augustine 23Aug63 (storage-coccooned)
TAC ACO [Air Commando?] Wg Eglin AFB 20Feb64 (combat support unit aircraft)

So for a start, note a couple visits for depot maint at St Augustine, not mentioned on the Museum's site, ditto a few Middletown AMA depot maints at Olmsted. Also transient maint at Myrtle Beach.

My only concern is the presence of so many 'storage-coccooned' entries: I suspect the record cards have been erroneously marked 'SC' (storage-coccooned), when they should have said 'CP' (tactical unit support). Unless SC changed its meaning at some point.

However my expertise is in fighter records cards, so I'd appreciate any comments, corrections etc. from anyone who is prepared to look beyond Google.

Overall, my point is that, bearing in mind the disparity between the Museum's given history and the aircraft's record cards up to 1964, I have doubts that there are in fact any 'missing' bits in the puzzle. BTW - it's a C-123B up to Feb64.

flightsimer · **Posted:** Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:46 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

From the Air Heritage web site

January 1966: To Aeronautical Systems Division (AFSC) Wright-Patterson AFB (To designation UC-123B, defoliant configuration)

April 1969: To Hayes Aircraft, Napier Field Dothan, AL

It very well could be on the we simple as such, but our website is out of date and I can tell you many things that are factually wrong with it.

It was a single person who redid it and he could have possibly used information he found online rather than the actual information we have for it. The history quemerford posted is the one I was always told was the true one.

Warbird Information Exchange

Ranch Hand C-123's- new report

Who is online