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 Post subject: Aviation Archaeologist
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:01 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_V3Yr-cv1s&feature=em-subs_digest-g

Right around the 50 minute mark they start talking about the "found Liberator" at Barksdale.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:26 am 
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Location: Travis AFB
Dave Trojan relates his experiences hunting down aviation crash sites in Michigan, including a Ford built B-24 that crashed in Michigan. He also tells of a Japanese Balloon bomb that landed in Michigan. Lastly, he talks about B-24 crash sites around the country and the nose section of a RCAF Liberator in storage at the Barksdale AFB Museum. Video ends with an update on the B-24 parts in the Yankee Air Museum.

For more info about Michigan Aviation Archaeology see this link:

http://www.mi-aviationarchaeology.com/

Thanks goes to Jeff Benya for most of the research and work in Michigan.
I just like to tell the stories.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:52 pm 
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I just watched the presentation and two of the B-24 crash sites are Ford built, according to the serial numbers. I did not know the real cause of Almont B-24 crash, it was interesting to hear the story. If the records at Benson Ford Research Center show the engineering change number, I should be able to find the changes on the microfilm drawings. It was a great presentation and thank you for sharing.

I lost interest on the nose section when I read the status as an NMUSAF artifact.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:58 pm 
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Any chance to recover any of those airframes? Im sure there has to be some parts / pieces that YAM would want. Or is it even possible to recover any of these wrecks?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:41 pm 
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It is possible to recover items from the crash sites. I requested and received a list of Ford built B-24 serial numbers. I'm going to match the list with known B-24 crash sites. YAM wants Ford built B-24 parts. Approximately 500 B-24s from all mfgs. had accidents in the continental U.S. during WWII, with about 10% of those were major accidents. There are crash sites out there, some buried, some in remote locations. I have visited 15 B-24 crash sites and I know where about another dozen are located. I'll keep searching...
Alohadave


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:49 pm 
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For those interested in the details of the Michigan B-24, s/n 44-8800 accident. From the official report:

1. In accordance with the requirements of existing contracts and Materiel Command, Wright Field, letter prh:60-14, dated 6 June 1944, by Major R. M. Sinnen, this airplane, 44-8800, was selected as representative of a production lot of airplanes manufactured by the Ford Motor Company, Willow Run, Ypsilanti, Michigan, and was on its 6th Flight for bomb dropping tests at altitude in operational check of bomb bay doors at all allowable speeds. The airplane left Willow Run at 12:27 and no further radio contact was made. Weather was reported as C.A.V.U. throughout this area. The flight schedule provided for dropping of bombs at altitude over the assigned area along the shore of Lake Huron. Upon completion of this part of the flight, the airplane descends to about 12,000 feet, at which time the airplane is put into a power dive testing the bomb bay door operation at all allowable speeds. It is believed this procedure was followed, although no information was obtained to ascertain this. It is believed that bomb bay door operation was tried and a "squawk" was found, necessitating regaining altitude for a repetition of the test.

2. The first actual witness to the flight of the plane immediately prior to the crash, located the ship in an area south of the scene of the accident, climbing from a low altitude and proceeding in a northeasterly direction. The ship was then observed by other witnesses to proceed in a northerly direction then turning to the west followed by a turn to a southeasterly course. At this time the ship was reported to be several miles north of the location of the crash at an estimated altitude of 7,000 to 10,000 feet. It was then observed to proceed in a southeasterly direction in a power dive. Shortly after the power dive was started, witnesses observed pieces of what appeared to be paper fall from the airplane. The airplane continued in this power dive at a high rate of speed with all four engines running. Then it was observed to go into a steeper dive and then suddenly into a vertical dive at an altitude of approximately 300 or 400 feet.

3. Judging from the impact, the airplane struck at a terrific speed. The airplane exploded on impact, scattering fragments over a wide area. Evidence indicated that at the time of the crash one Flight Engineer was in the Bombardier's compartment where he could operate the bomb bay doors. Apparently, the other Flight Engineer was in the or near the Radio compartment where he could inspect the operation of the doors. The Pilot and Co-pilot in their respective places.

4. The pieces which appeared to be paper that fell from the airplane in flight were found to be elevator trim tabs, part of the elevator, bomb bay doors and parts of the nose turret. These pieces were found in the adjacent farms on the course of the airplane, about a mile to a mile and half from the scene of the accident.

5. It is the opinion of the Board that the Pilot attempted to use the elevator trim tabs to recover from the test dive for bomb bay door operation, at which time the elevator tabs failed, causing the structural failure of the elevator which made it impossible for the Pilot to recover from the dive. As the dive continued, speed of the airplane increased, causing the failure of the bomb bay doors and nose turret.

6. There is a remote possibility that bomb bay doors were torn off in the test operation which struck the elevator, causing further structural damage. The failure of the elevators resulted in the Pilot losing complete control of the airplane, with the result that the airplane assumed an ever increasing diving angle.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:51 pm 
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By the numbers, Aircraft accidents in the Continental US 1942-1945:

B-24: total 1,713, fatal 490, fatalities 2,796, airplanes wrecked 746
B-17: total 1,589, fatal 284, fatalities 1,757, airplanes wrecked 479

So, yes the B-17 was safer than the B-24 according to the numbers

but I still love the B-24...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:29 pm 
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A fairly decent center wing section could be rebuilt from crash remains. Anything with GK32(Letter)Number is Ford B-24 parts.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:43 pm 
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1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm
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ALOHADAVE wrote:
Dave Trojan relates his experiences hunting down aviation crash sites in Michigan, including a Ford built B-24 that crashed in Michigan. He also tells of a Japanese Balloon bomb that landed in Michigan. Lastly, he talks about B-24 crash sites around the country and the nose section of a RCAF Liberator in storage at the Barksdale AFB Museum. Video ends with an update on the B-24 parts in the Yankee Air Museum.

For more info about Michigan Aviation Archaeology see this link:

http://www.mi-aviationarchaeology.com/

Thanks goes to Jeff Benya for most of the research and work in Michigan.
I just like to tell the stories.


That's a pretty cool site. I too live in Michigan. I thought about researching to see what crashes maybe be in my local area. I know there was a Navy drone crash in town (NAS Traverse City) during the war.


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