This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:09 am
Many sources claim that Charles Lindbergh "test-flew the Lockheed P-80" as well as a number of other Postwar USAAF aircraft. I can readily believe that he was invited into the left seat of B-52s while in flight--he supposedly did a fair number of B-52 missions as a guest USAF officer--but I have my doubts that Kelly Johnson would have let him anywhere near a P-80, which had already shown its propensity to kill pilots unfamiliar with its accelerative characteristics. Does anybody know different? I've never seen a single photo of Lindbergh with any of these supposed "test aircraft," andI can't imagine that the AF would have neglected the opportunity for such a photo op.
Same goes, in fact, for the oft-told tale of Lindbergh having "been allowed to fly the Bf-109" before the war. I don't think that ever happened, and the only photo I've ever seen in that regard is one of him sitting in the right seat of an Me 108. Can't imagine that the Leica-ready Luftwaffe would have neglected that opportunity either. One reputable source that I've read says that Lindbergh "was allowed to sit in the cockpit" of the -109, and I think that's where the legend began.
Yeah, I know, it says different on the Internet, and we all know the Internet is never wrong...
(I'm doing a Lindbergh book, by the way, so I've viewed a scheissload of Lindbergh photos and read every legitimate bio of him that's out there.)
Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:17 pm
Lindbergh actually did many "test" flights and flew a vast variety of aircraft over the years. He had a natural talent to fly just about anything with little to no instruction. Not sure if he test flew the P-80 but I wouldn't be surprised if he took one around the flagpole. Manufacturers valued his opinion on their planes and a stamp of approval from Lindbergh was worth its weight in gold.
Lindbergh despised the press and hated having his picture taken. He famously refused to enter a meeting until the press departed. It's no surprise that there aren't pictures of him with certain airplanes. Many people knew not to take out a camera around him.
Good luck with your research. Lindbergh was one of the greats in aviation.
Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:28 pm
Actually, Lindbergh loved being photographed with military aircraft. The files are full of pictures of him with P-38s and F4Us in the Pacific, some of them with him smiling more than he's ever smiled before.
What worries me about the story is that I cannot find a single reference to Lindbergh having flown the P-80 in a variety of Lockheed books--I can't imagine that Kelly Johnson wouldn't have at least mentioned it in his autobiography--and a web search for "Lindbergh flies the P-80" brings up nothing beyond numerous references to Lindbergh and the P-38.
At this point, I continue to think it's a myth. Some journalist saw him on a ramp looking at one, or perhaps sitting in the cockpit--something he could easily have done as a USAF ranking officer--and it morphed into "Lindbergh test-flies the P-80!"
If the Lindbergh imprimateur is worth its weight in gold to a manufacturer, why didn't Lockheed make anything of the fact that he supposedly flew the P-80?
Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:38 pm
Stephan Wilkinson wrote:Actually, Lindbergh loved being photographed with military aircraft. The files are full of pictures of him with P-38s and F4Us in the Pacific, some of them with him smiling more than he's ever smiled before.
What worries me about the story is that I cannot find a single reference to Lindbergh having flown the P-80 in a variety of Lockheed books--I can't imagine that Kelly Johnson wouldn't have at least mentioned it in his autobiography--and a web search for "Lindbergh flies the P-80" brings up nothing beyond numerous references to Lindbergh and the P-38.
At this point, I continue to think it's a myth. Some journalist saw him on a ramp looking at one, or perhaps sitting in the cockpit--something he could easily have done as a USAF ranking officer--and it morphed into "Lindbergh test-flies the P-80!"
If the Lindbergh imprimateur is worth its weight in gold to a manufacturer, why didn't Lockheed make anything of the fact that he supposedly flew the P-80?
I think you nailed it when you said, "...I cannot find a single reference to Lindbergh having flown the P-80 in a variety of Lockheed books". If you're writing a book, then the last place you'd look is someone else's book. No - in fact the last place you'd look is Wiki - then someone else's book.
I'd guess Lindbergh's log books reside somewhere? That would be my starting point.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:21 am
Nobody seems to have ever found any of Lindbergh's logbooks except a few of the earliest ones, which were essentially small ring-binder notebooks. Most recent I have seen is a record of his 48-state tour after the Paris flight. It is possible that, as is true of many experienced pilots, he no longer kept a logbook after a certain point. I believe the logbook that was in the SoSL was stolen sometime during the night after he landed in Paris, while the airplane was in a hangar.
Why wouldn't I read other peoples' books, when there are a dozen excellent biographies of both Charles and Anne, as well as Lindbergh's own books?
Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:36 am
Stephan Wilkinson wrote:Nobody seems to have ever found any of Lindbergh's logbooks except a few of the earliest ones, which were essentially small ring-binder notebooks. Most recent I have seen is a record of his 48-state tour after the Paris flight. It is possible that, as is true of many experienced pilots, he no longer kept a logbook after a certain point. I believe the logbook that was in the SoSL was stolen sometime during the night after he landed in Paris, while the airplane was in a hangar.
Why wouldn't I read other peoples' books, when there are a dozen excellent biographies of both Charles and Anne, as well as Lindbergh's own books?
By all means read, but if you're
writing then you need primary sources.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:42 pm
One thing you need to understand, since you're apparently not a publishing professional, is that you match the research to the money you're getting to do the book. If I'm being paid $100,000 advance, I can afford to spend a week in DC at the Smithsonian and do a variety of other primary-source research, maybe go to Minnesota and visit the Historical Society, travel up to Maine to spend some time with Reeve Lindbergh, etc. If I'm being paid a straight $3,000 fee to do the copy, I have no problem buying $300 worth of books, but that's about it.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:54 pm
Stephan Wilkinson wrote:One thing you need to understand, since you're apparently not a publishing professional, is that you match the research to the money you're getting to do the book. If I'm being paid $100,000 advance, I can afford to spend a week in DC at the Smithsonian and do a variety of other primary-source research, maybe go to Minnesota and visit the Historical Society, travel up to Maine to spend some time with Reeve Lindbergh, etc. If I'm being paid a straight $3,000 fee to do the copy, I have no problem buying $300 worth of books, but that's about it.
Whoops. Just trying to help: too many quota books out there.
Not a professional, but I do have half a dozen books under my belt. Good research and primary sources are I guess some of the reasons they get good reviews.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:06 pm
What are some of your books?
Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:27 pm
oooh - I may need to pick up your F-86 D/L book - we are slowly trying to restore a F-86L in Wendover that the Air Force let us rescue from a pole!
Tom P.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:41 pm
wendovertom wrote:oooh - I may need to pick up your F-86 D/L book - we are slowly trying to restore a F-86L in Wendover that the Air Force let us rescue from a pole!
Tom P.
I remember it well: a real time capsule and never previously restored I recall?
Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Is there any mention of it in the book, The Wartime Journals of Charles A. Lindbergh? Would like to read that some day..
Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:45 pm
Nope. I have the book.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:49 pm
quemerford - Yes, it had been in Battle Mountain, NV and when the museum/park there died the USAF gave it to us! The Cockpit is somewhat complete including the ejection seat (which the Utah ANG restored for us!) and S.A.G.E. equipment, radar controls and all! we have the original engine on a stand and after cleaning about 25 lbs of bird poop out her it is definitely in better shape the on the pole. A couple of years ago one of her original crew chiefs came and visited her in the hangar! That was a treat for all involved.
Tom P.
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
phpBB Mobile / SEO by Artodia.