Warbird Information Exchange

Seen over on ww2aircraft.net

Caption: "P-63C-5-BE 43-11589 (7th FRG) force landed and w/o at Lesser Slave Lake, Alberta, Canada Apr 20, 1945"

The date is getting kinda late in the season for ice. Any idea if it broke thru the ice and is still up there?




Thx

Shay

I doubt it, although I have no personal expertise in these recovery investigations.

Back then the expectation was that they'd lose a fair percentage, so their salvage operation was pretty good. Balancing that was the reliance on roads, which are sparse in that part of the world.

That’s a BIG lake. 450 square miles 62 miles long by 9 miles wide. Probably lots of interesting stuff at the bottom…

Just a reminder; There’s a P-63 in Lake Winnebago off the east end of runway 09 ( KOSH) , Wittman Field. Steve Wittman had a race and his pilot ran out of fuel and couldn’t make it back . He ditched it and it’s still there . It had an N number and would provide a great source of parts, maybe more.

The ice wouldn’t have much life left in it by late April in that place, and being a P-63 in April of '45… they likely ignored it until the ice was too far gone and just let it sink. That's what I would have done.

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

I can't find a scrap of information regarding a P-63 in Lake Winnebago - can you provide more details? I know the lake has seen a few sunken planes, but I've never heard of a P-63 sitting on the bottom.

Hi HB, if you google "Steve Wittman P-63 " it comes up. The airplane was a P-63C, race number 4, serial number 44-4321. N909B. It was sold to someone in texas, and while being prepared to leave Oshkosh the pilot ran out of gas and had to put it in the lake. September 1949.

Here is what Goodall has on that airframe-

33-906 P-63C 44-4321 NX69797 Steve Wittman (race #4) .46/47 open storage at Wittman's home c50

I googled, and found a post of yours from 2015 mentioning it. The earliest mention I could find is this post, which only mentions 'a' lake, not specifically Lake Winnebago: http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... 257#p29257

Lake Winnebago has a maximum depth of 21 feet, so if Steve Wittman's P-63 is indeed sitting in it, I'd be absolutely shocked that it hasn't yet been recovered, what with the EAA Museum being located only about 2 miles from the shore. But I'm intrigued enough to keep digging.

From what I recall of Steve's talk a while ago, they "secured"it in the lake and left for the evening. When they returned the next day, it was gone.

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May all your bent wings be F2G Corsairs!

I believe Steve’s P-63 went down in a lake in Texas, not here in WI.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I don't remember if the pilot ditched it in the lake or baled out. If he baled out then there wouldn't have been any thought about retrieving it. Same if it had been a P-51. The airplanes and spare parts were cheap and expendable. I knew Mr. Wittman as he was Paul Poberezny's mentor and Paul was one of my dad's best friends. Paul himself told us it was in Lake Winnebago. But things get twisted and memories aren't always accurate.
Paul said they were doing test runs when the engine failed over Lake Winnebago, possibly fuel starvation. Unfortunately Mr. Wittman, P. Poberezny and his son Tom are all deceased. Maybe the Basler , Paul, families or other old timers would know something about it. It isn't a P-51 or Mk 9 Spitfire so there haven't been hordes of people looking for it. It's possible the family of the lady in Texas would know something about it. It would be interesting if she was a pilot, intended to race it. or just a sponsor of some kind. It had already been highly modified for racing. I suspect Mr. Wittman believed the Bell published performance reports. Upon actually owning and flying it he found it to be quite a bit slower and not capable of being a winner. (The wing airfoil is too thick.)

We have a local historian who interviewed Bill Brennand who was also one of his good friends. In the interview transcripts he stated that the plane went to Texas and had modifications completed there. On the first flight after it was lost in a lake down there. Also lake Winnebago is only like 20 feet deep. So a P-63 would definitely be something to be easily done on here.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Gentlemen,

Might I gently redirect us back to the original point of this thread?

Joe Baugher's website suggests that the following Kingcobras all bellied in on Lesser Slave on April 20, 1945:

43-11498
43-11578
43-11589

Since the ferrying route between Edmonton and Fort Nelson passes well west (100 miles or so) of Lesser Slave Lake, we'll assume that deteriorating weather forced this flight to consider heading east. Although I do not have insider knowledge from veteran ferry pilots, I'd guess that a frozen Lesser Slave Lake provided an attractive option for getting down in one piece in 1945, especially along its southern shore with the railroad line and a series of towns available. Based on the photographs posted at ww2aircraft.net, I'm going to propose that all three aircraft were tugged off the ice. Very happy to be proven incorrect!

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

For what it's worth, AAIR lists the three as "Forced Landing - Out of Gas" and their damage as code 3/"substantial".

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)