Swamp Ghost update, + worrying statements about ex PNG a/c

Flat 12x2 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:17 pm

From http://www.theswampghost.com
PNG findings
http://www.theswampghost.com/news/pac/index.html

Afew selected sections

Quote:

38. Ultimately it may be that this aircraft is to be sold by the State. That decision must be made by Government and activated in accordance with the Public Finance (Management) Act and Financial Instructions.

39. This is a significant historical artifact worth many millions of US Dollars.

61. This Committee recommends that the Government of Papua New Guinea immediately elicit assistance from the Australian High Commission, the United States Government, the New Zealand Government, UNESCO, International Law Enforcement Agencies and domestic and Foreign Law Enforcement Agencies to trace each and every piece of War Surplus Material that has been exported from Papua New Guinea and reassert the ownership of the State in perpetuity.

62. It does appear to this Committee that salvagers of War Surplus Material from Papua New Guinea may have on sold material to buyers who purchased in good faith.

6.3 The Government of Papua New Guinea should, when reasserting its ownership of aircraft, or aircraft parts or any War Surplus, take into account the fact that Papua New Guinea cannot house, exhibit or maintain such material at the present time and that innocent buyers may have expended considerable money in restoring and exhibiting aircraft.

64. State ownership in this sense, may require long term arrangements with collectors or Museums to enable those entities to recoup their expense but always protecting the ownership of the State of Papua New Guinea of these war relics.

Django · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:54 pm

That's ridiculous. What's done is done.

RickH · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:04 pm

Notice #39. We've gone from $100,000 for a wreck in the swamp to an artifact worth many millions of US dollars. Notice the new coin of the realm is now US dollars.

That's the rub, the correct govt agencies didn't get their cut !

bluethunder28 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:26 am **Posts:** 199

Sometimes the internet is a good yhing and sometimes it can cause big headaches.

One has to wonder if nobody said anything on the web, would Swamp Ghost be home now?

PNG goverment has known however for 30 years that people wanted to bring her home. Money talks and a new group in office are ticked that $$$$$$$$$$$$ is trying to leave. So now PNG has a B-17 boxed up and sitting on a dock. What chance is there that the PNG gov. will put her back in the swamp so they can get their couple bucks from the dozen or so the will visit her a year? Or will the Swamp Ghost rot before PNG does anything.

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:59 pm

I felt a liitle guilty in alleging in an earlier response that someone was after a cut of the pie, rather than historic considerations. It looks like I was correct. A primitive society may be a little slow in understanding that "love thy neighbor", doesn't mean eat them; but it seems they fully grasp the concept of capitalism. I wonder if the B-17 was going to Austrailia if it would be any easier.

hairy · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:03 pm

Flat 12x2 wrote:

61. This Committee recommends that the Government of Papua New Guinea immediately elicit assistance from the Australian High Commission, the United States Government, the New Zealand Government, UNESCO, International Law Enforcement Agencies and domestic and Foreign Law Enforcement Agencies to trace each and every piece of War Surplus Material that has been exported from Papua New Guinea and reassert the ownership of the State in perpetuity.

How are they going to reassert ownership on ingots, pots n' pans, windowframes etc,etc. which has been and being the ultimate end for most of the unfortunate airframes in PNG.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

Greed is unquestionably what has driven this for over 30 years. The problem is how do the corrupt politicians get the money in their pocket without getting found out? That is the reason for the delay in my opinion. The more you delay the more opportunity exists for payola. Once the airplane is gone you can't squeeze blood out of the turnip any more. By giving the money to a museum, you now have a legitimate organization to pay. Can't have that, now can we?

Maybe if they had a decent museum they would have a place to put some of the other artifacts on display and get them out of the elements before they disappear altogether.

David J Burke · **Joined:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:52 am **Posts:** 189

Not sure where the primative society bit comes from ! The people of PNG have numerous different languages and quite interesting social groupings.
Maybe if people read the full report rather than cherry picking the bits that make good soundbites we might get some balance in the discussion!

gregv · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:42 pm

I am very happy to see that the good people of PNG have finally woken up to the rich heritage lying around them in the bushes, and I am awaiting with baited breath the unveiling of the website showing the 3D plans & models of the proposed world-class "PNG Aviation Heritage Museum & Preservational Restoration Center"...

To be completely candid, I am happy for every single airframe that was recovered out of that area before now; I wish all of it would have come out, because the current situation is ludicrous.

good luck to the Swamp Ghost & crew.

greg v.

David J Burke · **Joined:** Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:52 am **Posts:** 189

BDK - The Fortress wasn't recovered thirty years ago because it wasn't worth big bucks then. Fortress firebombers were still being destroyed in the 1970s' and there were still meat hauler's in Bolivia. The aircraft chosen back then for recovery were the ones likely to be worth money and with the possible exception of the A-20's they were pretty much bang on the money.
The other factor was that in the 1970's there wasn't money in tv documentaries.

bomberflight · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:53 pm

Maybe this is actually the best result we could hope for ~ stay with me on this ..... I'm going to risk playing devils advocate for a while

38. Accepts that the aircraft may be sold at some point ~
that would set a legal precident for other airframes too ?
39. Shows they have finally woken up that they have something of signifcant value in hard cash which could bode well to stop other airframes ending up as scrap and could lead to more aircraft being offered by the PNG government for recovery ?
62. Accepts that there are decent, honest people in the warbird community
63. Accepts that PNG cannot look after airframes and that large sums of money have gone into restoring them
64. Offers the current "custodians" of the airframes to recoup their costs
( say over 25 to 50 years for a restored airworthy aircraft ? )

61. Is then the big emotional issue for us to face up to ~ but better to save and salvage as many remaining airframes as possible and negotiate on ownership over the years to come than let the current state of affairs continue as it has done in the past couple of decade

Just my humble two pennies worth

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

David J Burke wrote:

BDK - The Fortress wasn't recovered thirty years ago because it wasn't worth big bucks then.

Recovery was first negotiated for in 1985 I understand. Make it 21 years! Thanks for the correction.

hairy · **Posted:** Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:11 pm

Just a thought...............

PNG under-water war time relics.........

Who has ownership?

US Navy vs. PNG Goverment?

:angry:

Steve T · **Posted:** Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:05 am

It will be very interesting indeed to watch the progression of events here. Those statements are more evenhanded than what had been published previously, but a mass "asset grab" seems to be the intention anyway. The B-17 seems to be the flashpoint, but clearly in view are the dozens of recoveries from earlier times, including a number now flying and a larger number restored and in major museums all over the globe. Fascinating...

S.

B-29 Super Fort · **Joined:** Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:12 am **Posts:** 871

I see it being sold...the question is who steps forward with enough money to make it happen...Paul Allen perhaps?

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Swamp Ghost update, + worrying statements about ex PNG a/c

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