Warbird Information Exchange

Seeing Jack Cook’s post of the B-17 with extra armament brought up questions I was hoping some light could be shed on.

I was watching a documentary on the history of Boeing the other day. It was stated in this film that during WWII the ETO B-17 crews knocked down over 3300 German fighters, and also claimed that this was more than the US fighters knocked down. Can anyone produce numbers to confirm this?

Also has it been established what the B-17 kill ratio is against German fighters in Europe?

I know that early in the daylight bombing campaign during 1942 Eighth Air Force gunners claimed a 6 to 1 kill ratio which was an exaggerated figure according to some sources.

Mark

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Might be hard to figure exactly since it is hard to tell if a particular B-17 went down from enemy aircraft or from Flak.... very interesting though

That could be a tuff number to pin down.
I do know that the 390th BG in a ferocious air battle during mission #22 to Munster on October 10, 1943, eighteen 390th Bomb Group B-17s shot down 62 German fighter aircraft for a record in the 8th Air Force..Its not any figures but an interesting fact!

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Never drive faster than your Guardian Angel can fly!!

http://www.390th.org/
www.LSFM.org

Trae

With a dozen B-17s shooting at a fighter making a pass, which is seen to be hit....how many individual gunners from different aircraft claim it.?

Dave

The answer is that US heavy bomber gunners overclaimed by roughly 10x. Often they would claim dozens of enemy fighters shot down when in fact German records showed only a handful lost. Most famously, on the 8/17/43 Schweinfurt raid, B-17 gunners claimed 288 kills; Spitfire and P-47 pilots claimed a further 30. Total German losses to all sources were 27 fighters. This was typical and was tacitly encouraged by high command for morale purposes. Although all types of kill claims during the war were exaggerated, bomber kill claims have zero credibility.

It's too bad that old propaganda still passes for history, especially on TV.

August

there was a b-17 prototype that was literally a flying gun platform. the premise of the experiment was a flying anti aircraft weapon. it had 2 top twin dorsel turrets & 2 lower ones, not to mention other guns stuck on the prototype, aside from what was considered stock weaponry.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

That B-17 was a Lockheed modification dubbed the YB-40. It sported an additional top turret where the radio operator hatch is located and twin 50's in each waist position. It had the standard ball turret, and of course the chin turret which would become a production item. These mods were begun in July '42 with requisite testing at Wright field.

F:\My Pictures\yb40 b17.jpg

darn! not again! ive got 2 cool pics of a yb-40. humour me, ill try again.

i could swear it had 2 lower turrets. i could be wrong!!!! waiting for the pics groundpounder!!! the type wasn't accepted because of marginal performance, undoubtly due to excess weight from all that heavy iron, but it was a novel concept.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Some of the surviving YB-40s went Stateside as trainers; here are some stills from "The Best Years of Our Lives". Note how the rear upper turret has been removed and faired over.

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)