Warbird Information Exchange

Often published data is that this B-17G tanker (44-85774 N621L), operated by Aircraft Specialties, crashed in July 1975, probably on July 1. I have the names of two B-17 pilots who were killed also in 1975. However, there is no NTSB crash record of this airplane and I can't find any media record of a B-17 tanker crash in 1975. The WIX registry shows this crash date, taken probably from the Warbirds Worldwide series, and the date has shown up elsewhere (including my Aero Vintage site), probably from the same source. Does anyone have specific date, location, or details of the accident?

are you sure it is not this one :
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=85599&key=0

NTSB Identification: OAK74FXQ07
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Event occurred Thursday, July 12, 1973 in EUREKA, NV
Aircraft: BOEING B-17G, registration: N620L

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA F S M/N PURPOSE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3-2405 73/7/12 EUREKA,NEV BOEING B-17G CR- 2 0 0 COMMERCIAL AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE TIME - 1915 N620L PX- 0 0 0 FIRE CONTROL 55, 11300 TOTAL HOURS, 59 DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT RATED. DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION ELKO,NEV LOCAL TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION STALL IN FLIGHT: LOW PASS PROBABLE CAUSE(S) PILOT IN COMMAND - FAILED TO OBTAIN/MAINTAIN FLYING SPEED FACTOR(S) WEATHER - DOWNDRAFT,UPDRAFTS WEATHER - UNFAVORABLE WIND CONDITIONS MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - DOWNWIND WEATHER BRIEFING - NO RECORD OF BRIEFING RECEIVED WEATHER FORECAST - UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED SKY CONDITION CEILING AT ACCIDENT SITE UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED VISIBILITY AT ACCIDENT SITE PRECIPITATION AT ACCIDENT SITE UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED OBSTRUCTIONS TO VISION AT ACCIDENT SITE WIND DIRECTION-DEGREES SMOKE 90 WIND VELOCITY-KNOTS TYPE OF WEATHER CONDITIONS 40 UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED TYPE OF FLIGHT PLAN NONE REMARKS- LOW ALT STEEP TURN DOWNWIND OVR DOWNSLOPE SIDE OF MTN.DRY RUN OVR FIRE LINE,FULL LOAD.WIND GUSTY.

_________________
Matt Gunsch, A&P, IA, Warbird maint and restorations
Jack, You have Debauched my sloth !!!!!!
We tried voting with the Ballot box, When do we start voting from the Ammo box, and am I allowed only one vote ?
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Matt, I appreciate that effort but I need info on sistership N621L that reportedly crashed in 1975. Both N620L and N621L were tankers imported by Aircraft Specialties from Bolivia in the mid-1960s.

Go to http://www.airtanker.com/. On their site under Memorial, they don't list any 1973 B-17 fatalities, only 1975.

Maybe you can gey on their mb and ask there.

In the summer of 1973 or 1974 another B-17 tanker had an unusual incident. I photographed the B-17 on the ramp one evening with several other tankers at the Boise Interagency Fire Center in Idaho. The very next day I was told this B-17 had engine or fuel problems and had to make a forced landing in California in a very precarious manner. The story was that it landed perpendicular to a road, bouncing over that road between telephone poles (barely!!!) and into a meadow or field before safely stopping. Some prop damage and maybe some gear damage as I recall. It was one of those stories that changed a little bit with each ramp hand at Boise retelling it. In any case a new engine and prop or two and whatever else were brought in and they flew it out.

I never got the official story or saw any photos. I don't now remember the exact airplane and would have to dig through the old files and negatives. A fellow bought my original 35mm prints. I want to say it was tanker 16 or 18.

Does anyone know more about this?

The following site has

150775 N621L Aircraft Specialities Company USA 0 Killed
120773 N620L Aircraft Specialities Company Eureka, NV 2 Killed

http://www.baaa-acro.com/Types%20d%27av ... 20B-17.htm

And the accident report for N620L in 1973 has 2 killed

However, the http://www.airtanker.com/memorial.htm Memorial has 2 pilots killed in 1975, but none in 1973. Maybe they have the wrong year???

However, still does not explain lack of accident report for N621L

I'll see what I can find on this.A quick Google search under "N621L" brought up the following link:
http://www.air-and-space.com/Boeing%20B ... ankers.htm

This shows N621L as Tanker C64,which was a Region 3 (Arizona and New Mexico) tanker number.This would have changed to a national number by 1975.Tanker 64 in 1975 was an F7F flown by Ralph Rensink out of Porterville.

I flew as Bob Forbes co-pilot out of Porterville in B-17 Tanker 65 that year on a CDF contract and don't remember hearing about the accident.However,Nevada might as well have been the moon as far as the CDF was concerned.

It surprises me that there is no firm information on this tanker accident (N621L) that occurred probably on July 1, 1975. I think it was a fatal, as was N620L two years earlier. These accidents were not always investigated by the NTSB, and the FAA would only do a cursory investigation, leaving any real investigation to the operating agency, usually USFS. From what I have gathered, the accident occurred on a fire in Region 4 and was a fatal.

I can't add anything to the fate of 44-85774 but thought some of her history might be of interest. According to the information I have developed so far, she was a VB-17G and apparently served domestic stations throughout her career. She was sent to reclamation in September 1950 but recovered and continued serving, apparently out of Hamilton AFB. She was in an accident at Great Falls, Mont. in March of 1952 due to icing, and was part of the group of B-17s transferred to Bolivia in 1956. The photo below was apparently taken in the late 1940's at Tinker AFB; note buzz number on fuselage and especially what is believed to be APS-10 radar under the nose (very few B-17s had this radar installed in the nose - most APS-10 installations were on DB-17s in the former ball turret position).

[url][URL=http://s1344.photobucket.com/user/daviemax/media/44-85774/485774_zps25f12c70.jpg.html][/url][/url]

_________________
Daviemax
Researcher of Post-War B-17 History
Maintains database of B-17s used from 46- on.

aerovin
if you are still there.
The b-17 crashed at Cedar Breaks in Southern Utah on 7/17/1975
It took off from the Cedar Airport and went up the wrong canyon.
The feds have it as T99. Not 64
I do not know if it was N621L I was only 12 year old.

Also, there was one in 1973 i am still working on that.

On July 12, 1973 tanker C54 (N620L) crashed outside Elko, Nevada. My great uncle David A. Poindexter was the copilot, Wayne Waller was the pilot. The plane was built in 1944. Transferred to Bolivia in the 50s as CP620 and came back to America in the 60's. It was used in the movie Tora, Tora, Tora. It was the actual plane that made the famous one wheel landing. Sister plane N621L was recorded making the approach then it cuts to N620L. It was then stationed here in Mesa, Arizona at Falcon Field. It was repaired and made a fire tanker. My great uncle David and pilot Wayne were making a dry run over a fire somewhere in the Diamond Mountain Range. "Low altitude steep turn downwind over downslope side of the mountain, a dry run over the fireline with a full load of retardant. The winds were gusty, the plane stalled and collided with terrain. The pilot in command failed to obtain/maintain flying speed. Factors in the accident were: downdraft, updraft; unfavorable wind conditions, no record of a weather briefing, smoke.", according to wlfalwaysremember.org. My uncle left behind a wife and three children.