Anti-Flag
Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:36 pm
I guess I'm just venting here, but I had a very disturbing experience in one of my classes today.
We somehow got to talking about the American Flag and it's meaning and whether or not it is OK to step on it. I expressed my views about how I don't see it as a representation of the Govenment, but as a representation of the men and women who fought and died under it to protect our freedoms. When I was done talking, I was pretty much laughed at by the professor and several of the other students. They said that the flag doesn't really mean anything, but if it did, it would at best, represent the way of life we have and everything good about America and that is it. Thus, they decided one could walk on it and it doesn't matter. When I mentioned that it is ironic how it is the soldier who died under that flag so they would have the right to step on it, they laughed at me. They basically said that there really is no connection between the soldiers and the freedoms we have.
Let me know what you think.
We somehow got to talking about the American Flag and it's meaning and whether or not it is OK to step on it. I expressed my views about how I don't see it as a representation of the Govenment, but as a representation of the men and women who fought and died under it to protect our freedoms. When I was done talking, I was pretty much laughed at by the professor and several of the other students. They said that the flag doesn't really mean anything, but if it did, it would at best, represent the way of life we have and everything good about America and that is it. Thus, they decided one could walk on it and it doesn't matter. When I mentioned that it is ironic how it is the soldier who died under that flag so they would have the right to step on it, they laughed at me. They basically said that there really is no connection between the soldiers and the freedoms we have.
Let me know what you think.
Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:53 pm
Sounds like they didn't take your position seriously, which is too bad. Yours is a widely held and respectable position.
But I also suspect that you are not perceiving and representing their views accurately. Almost no one is naive enough to ascribe no meaning to a flag. Probably they just don't accord the military as great a role in defining America and its freedoms as you might, which is also a widely held and respectable position.
Mutual understanding and tolerance are the key. Something like the flag means something different to everyone. One's beliefs should dictate how one treats the flag. They, of course, do not give anyone the right to dictate how anyone else feels about or treats the flag.
August
But I also suspect that you are not perceiving and representing their views accurately. Almost no one is naive enough to ascribe no meaning to a flag. Probably they just don't accord the military as great a role in defining America and its freedoms as you might, which is also a widely held and respectable position.
Mutual understanding and tolerance are the key. Something like the flag means something different to everyone. One's beliefs should dictate how one treats the flag. They, of course, do not give anyone the right to dictate how anyone else feels about or treats the flag.
August
Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:17 pm
k5083 wrote:Mutual understanding and tolerance are the key. Something like the flag means something different to everyone. One's beliefs should dictate how one treats the flag. They, of course, do not give anyone the right to dictate how anyone else feels about or treats the flag.
August
Exactly, I was trying to explain that I did see their views as well, but it didn't matter, to them, I was completely wrong and only their opinion was right.
Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:24 pm
Dont feel to bad,..I know I would have gotten pretty mad at the whole situation!
Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:02 pm
phantom........ let me guess...... do you attend kent state university??
Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:04 pm
PhantomAce08 wrote:Exactly, I was trying to explain that I did see their views as well, but it didn't matter, to them, I was completely wrong and only their opinion was right.
I had a really long post typed up, only to realize that it really wasn't going to further anything more than my post count.
Last edited by chico on Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:15 pm
Oh, and just out of curiousity, did anyone else check out this thread thinking it would be a bout a punk band? 
Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:53 pm
tom d. friedman wrote:phantom........ let me guess...... do you attend kent state university??
No, I actually attend the University of Akron. I'm actually a Chemical Engineering major, but this was one of the courses I have to take as part of the Honors Program, which by the way was not even a political class, it was an "Art History" class of sorts.
Flag
Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:37 pm
Phantom, I hope you will retain your idea that you have a right to an opinion, as does anyone else and that universiity should be a place to exchange and examine ideas. Decades ago there was a time when most Americans could be pro miltary and think our govt was right. Then came Vietnam. LBJ created the lie of Tonkin Gulf, got Congress reved up for a war that not only did people not want, but in a place most had not even heard of. As the war went on; 55,000 US dead 200,000 wounded, 2 million killed, etc., finally support turned, and as it did the govt and military made war, in some cases, on the American people as in the army murders of unarmed students at Kent and Jackson, and Watergate breakins. To a lesser extent that is what has happened with Bush and Iraq. So, to many people, a flag which once symbolized democracy and freedom may have come to represent war and oppression. History now knows Nixon was as bad as Bush may turn out to be.
Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:03 am
a quick search and some do's and don'ts...Linky
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html
Bill, I was almost a neighbor (kind of) to you years ago but I though the agent was nuts asking 300k for a trailer, now kicking myself.
Now looking at Summit county. but that means Leadville and oxygen, Kremling or driving east 70 plus miles. Or I wonder... do they allow commoners at eagle/vail??
Tony
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html
Bill, I was almost a neighbor (kind of) to you years ago but I though the agent was nuts asking 300k for a trailer, now kicking myself.
Now looking at Summit county. but that means Leadville and oxygen, Kremling or driving east 70 plus miles. Or I wonder... do they allow commoners at eagle/vail??
Tony
Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:46 pm
Not sure of the source, but it appears that someone agrees with you at least!
Not sure if this applies, but it may be fitting for the season!
It is the VETERAN , not the preacher, who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the VETERAN , not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the VETERAN , not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the VETERAN , not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to assemble.
It is the VETERAN , not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the VETERAN , not the politician, Who has given us the right to vote.
It is the VETERAN who salutes the Flag,
It is the veteran, who serves under the Flag.
Not sure if this applies, but it may be fitting for the season!
Dear Santa,
I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and joy in the world for everybody!
Love,
Sarah
-----------------------------------
Dear Sarah,
Your parents smoked pot when they conceived you, didn't they?
Santa