Dogfights! - I hope this isn't a trend.
Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:28 pm
Well, I just shut off tonight's episode of Dogfights!, disgusted.
It's one thing to show the horrors of war. It's another thing to make a CGI snuff film. Last season told some spectacular stories, detailed breakdowns of dogfights and the men involved. Tonight's episode, detailing German suicide attacks at the end of the war, seemed like nothing more than an excuse to put together some shock footage. "Dead, burning American boys, flung from their planes! Death! Violence! Destruction! Yeeehaw! Did you see that? That B-24 dun' blow'ed up REEEEEL Guuuuud!!!!!"
This was the antithisis of what made last season so great. No story, just a bunch of trivialized computer generated wreckage. Thanks, History Channel.
It's one thing to show the horrors of war. It's another thing to make a CGI snuff film. Last season told some spectacular stories, detailed breakdowns of dogfights and the men involved. Tonight's episode, detailing German suicide attacks at the end of the war, seemed like nothing more than an excuse to put together some shock footage. "Dead, burning American boys, flung from their planes! Death! Violence! Destruction! Yeeehaw! Did you see that? That B-24 dun' blow'ed up REEEEEL Guuuuud!!!!!"
This was the antithisis of what made last season so great. No story, just a bunch of trivialized computer generated wreckage. Thanks, History Channel.
Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:08 pm
I think that was last weeks episode. 
This week its "Jet vs Jet" I think, At least here in Ct.
CGI people seem alittle strange to me.
Phil
This week its "Jet vs Jet" I think, At least here in Ct.
CGI people seem alittle strange to me.
Phil
Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:30 am
Deleted
Last edited by Former Member on Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:39 pm
last night's episode here in ohio was on the mig 15 & f-86 in korea, with emphasis on colonel ralph parr's exploits during the war.
Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:02 pm
Jet vs Jet - Good show 
I see "Survivor" Jerry has a new gig
Phil
I see "Survivor" Jerry has a new gig
Phil
Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:19 pm
jpeters wrote:I didn't think it was all that bad. Sure there really weren't any classic dogfights shown but I thought the German ramming operations were somewhat interesting (had never heard of that before). What I really like is the fact that they interview many of the surviving vets that took part in these engagements.
John
Same here. Interesting and I had no idea the Germans had a squadron with the sole intent to ram bombers!
Ya, it was a shock to see how some of our guys died, but it was reality.
-Nate
Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:05 am
i can see where the episode in question would be deemed offensive, but bottom line....... war is not pretty. nor is history.
Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:04 pm
tom d. friedman wrote:i can see where the episode in question would be deemed offensive, but bottom line....... war is not pretty. nor is history.
Right, and I don't have a problem with theme accurately portraying history. What I didn't like was that it seemed to be the focus of the show, especially since the previous episodes were at least reasonably tactful. Yeah, Dogfights! has some hokey voice overs and dramatically placed commercial breaks, but for the most part they're entertaining without being too gimmicky. This episode was a break in the way the series had been up to this point.
Imagine if they spent an entire episode showing nothing but starved, dying Jews for an hour in a series called "the history of the holocaust." Now, it's historically accurate and necessary to show for sure, but there's a point where you've gone from "accurately portraying history" to "making an advertising buck or two off of dead bodies." No sense turning it into a carnival freakshow.
I just left with a bad taste in my mouth. Dogfights! actually presented its subject matter in a tasteful yet entertaining manner, and stayed pretty true to history. Pretty much a 180 degree turn from normal history channel shows. It's not going to stop me from watching it in the future, I just thought they pushed the point beyond where they needed to.
Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:35 pm
I just left with a bad taste in my mouth. Dogfights! actually presented its subject matter in a tasteful yet entertaining manner, and stayed pretty true to history. Pretty much a 180 degree turn from normal history channel shows. It's not going to stop me from watching it in the future, I just thought they pushed the point beyond where they needed to.[/quote]
So, for the sake of "Entertaining", war should be cleaned up? The planes where lost but no lives? How can one get the gravitiy of the situation by having a clean war scenario?
Do you watch the other shows on the History Channel, the ones that show the Holocaust, Nazi Death Camps, Japanese Attrocities , etc, etc..? Nah, they never would show that.
To stay true to History one must take the whole thing, warts and all, because war, no matter the scenario, is not entertainment.
So, for the sake of "Entertaining", war should be cleaned up? The planes where lost but no lives? How can one get the gravitiy of the situation by having a clean war scenario?
Do you watch the other shows on the History Channel, the ones that show the Holocaust, Nazi Death Camps, Japanese Attrocities , etc, etc..? Nah, they never would show that.
To stay true to History one must take the whole thing, warts and all, because war, no matter the scenario, is not entertainment.
Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:40 pm
Jesse C. wrote:So, for the sake of "Entertaining", war should be cleaned up?
No, but using the sacrifices those men made as entertainment is a disservice, and a line the History Channel needs to be conscious of.
Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:48 pm
I think your supposed to learn from history, not be entertained by it.
One should learn that great sacrifices where made by real people in a very real war, after all, that is what those CGI re-enactments are supposed to show you.
Yeah its cool to see those planes in action, even if its just CGI, but one must also see that it was no air show and people really died in the air.
If you want to be entertained watch Comedy Central, but if you want to learn, then you watch the History Channel.
One should learn that great sacrifices where made by real people in a very real war, after all, that is what those CGI re-enactments are supposed to show you.
Yeah its cool to see those planes in action, even if its just CGI, but one must also see that it was no air show and people really died in the air.
If you want to be entertained watch Comedy Central, but if you want to learn, then you watch the History Channel.
Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:40 pm
I am often entertained by history. Am I doing something wrong? What are warbird airshows all about then?
As soon as I cease to be entertained then I will do something else.
I enjoy learning about history, even the Holocaust. Doesn't mean it is a laughing matter though.
What are warbird airshows all about then?
As soon as I cease to be entertained then I will do something else.
Something that amuses, pleases, or diverts, especially a performance or show.
I enjoy learning about history, even the Holocaust. Doesn't mean it is a laughing matter though.
Jesse C. wrote:I think your supposed to learn from history, not be entertained by it.
Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:54 am
Don't watch it then.
Men died, it is a Dogfight, people get killed and kill. So, if you watch it with just two jets and no people viewed in them, is that ok?
War sucks, people die, you cannot change history. It is NOT for entertaining people, it is for educating them.
Call the history channel and complain, because when I saw what happened, I felt for those brave young men who perished in those fights.
As far as the jewish deal, I say show every detail. Maybe people will stop sweeping all the bad $hit that happends in this world under the rug and face the reality that people can be evil.
Men died, it is a Dogfight, people get killed and kill. So, if you watch it with just two jets and no people viewed in them, is that ok?
War sucks, people die, you cannot change history. It is NOT for entertaining people, it is for educating them.
Call the history channel and complain, because when I saw what happened, I felt for those brave young men who perished in those fights.
As far as the jewish deal, I say show every detail. Maybe people will stop sweeping all the bad $hit that happends in this world under the rug and face the reality that people can be evil.
Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:32 am
The whole show is based on killing, plain and simple! It's ok to show their guys getting killed every week, but not ours?
I have it on Tivo but have only had time to watch the first 10 minutes. I came away with the exact oposite reaction. I thought it was shaping up to be a great episode.
I had heard of the attacks but to see it depicted was very humbling and shocking. I watched that first pass by the 109 over a couple times in slo mo just to take it in... when the cockpit shears off and then the 109 hits the other B-24. Wow. Those poor guys didn't have a chance. To me it brought home the reality of war, something I have thankfully never experienced firsthand. Kinda like when I saw Saving Private Ryan the first time when they land on the beach. Very humbling. It made me appreciate the sacrifices those guys made that much more. But that's just me.
I have it on Tivo but have only had time to watch the first 10 minutes. I came away with the exact oposite reaction. I thought it was shaping up to be a great episode.
I had heard of the attacks but to see it depicted was very humbling and shocking. I watched that first pass by the 109 over a couple times in slo mo just to take it in... when the cockpit shears off and then the 109 hits the other B-24. Wow. Those poor guys didn't have a chance. To me it brought home the reality of war, something I have thankfully never experienced firsthand. Kinda like when I saw Saving Private Ryan the first time when they land on the beach. Very humbling. It made me appreciate the sacrifices those guys made that much more. But that's just me.