movie

[Bill Greenwood]

Has anyone seen the new movie, "Sicko" and did you enjoy it?

[oscardeuce]

Bill,

Once again you seem to light the fire on a topic you know nothing about. I am a certified by the American Board of Emergency Medicine. I've practiced Emergency Medince inn an Urban Level 1 Trauma Center, a community hospital, and even for an HMO.

What Mr. Moore presents are the exceptions, not the rules. Medicine is not perfect, as I am not perfect, yet we are held to zero tolerance for errors. I do not know what your profession is Bill, but I doubt you are held to the same 0 tolerance as I am.

Have you read the COBRA or EMTALA laws? Do you know that as an Emergency Physician, I am under a federal mandate to see all that present to me regardless of their staus? Do you know that while the Federal Government has passed this law, the did not include a cent to fund this mandate? Do you know we would do it anyway as we in Emergency Medicine do represent the "safety net". Would you feel the same way if the feds said that there are alot of people out there who cannot afford a Spitfire, so YOU need to pay for the maintainance , fuel and oil so that others who are "less fortunate and underserved" can fly it? Now I know life saving medical treatment is not quite the same as flying an airplane, but the effect on my bottom line is the same.

Is the system we have perfect? No. Are there people screwing the system to make more $$$$? Yes. Again these are the exceptions. I started kindergarten at the age of 5. I finished my residency and passed my boards at 30. 12 years of education in a public school. 4 years of college at a State University ( BS- Chemistry) 4 years Medical school in a State medical college. 4 years of residency in emergency medicine after med school. Every year I complete 100+ hours of education and training. The hourly rate of some airoplane mechanics is similar to mine ( not to bust on the mechanics out there, but the education and time investment is a bit different). I have spent 12 years after highschool, and $500,000 to become one of the most educated people in the world. I turn this education to the betterment of my fellow man.

In socialized medicine, at some point the the care has to stop, as they cannot afford to spend more $$ on care that will not change outcomes. In some countries, renal failure above a certain age is not treated with dialysis. Those patients are doomed to doe from their disease as the resiources they have are needed by younger more "viable" patients. Did Mr Moore mention this?

There are many reasons healthcare is expensive, Malpractice insuracne cost, drug research, good nursing, and ancillary caregivers. Hospital spend millions just to keep up or exceed the neighboring hospital, and therefore get a bigger market share.

No Bill, the system is not perfect, but I would not want to be treated anywhere else in the world. Are there things to change and fix, Yes. Does the whole system need to be changed, and given over to the government as Mr. Moore advocates? No!

Again Mr Moore is making millions, by saying the exceptions are the norm.

[Pat]

The hourly rate of some airoplane mechanics is similar to mine ( not to bust on the mechanics out there, but the education and time investment is a bit different).

Oscardeuce-

I agree with most everything you said, except about the "airoplane" mechanics pay...like you told Bill, these high paying mechanics jobs are exceptions, not the rule. 9/11 and greedy airline executives pretty much destroyed the aviation maintenance technician career field...a lot of our jobs were outsourced to foreign countries who employ unlicensed mechanics. Most AMT's sit through 1950 hours of FAA mandated classroom and lab training. I doubt if one spends much more time than that to get a bachelor's degree.

Anyway, I sincerely hope your career field improves, as well as mine.

-Pat

[oscardeuce]

I'd say my Bachelors' of Science in Chemistry was 3000+ hours of classroom and lab time.

I must be overpaying my mechanics here $60-80 an hour seems to be the going rate, but than as you said, there ain't that many of them around here anymore.

[Pat]

I'd say my Bachelors' of Science in Chemistry was 3000+ hours of classroom and lab time.

I must be overpaying my mechanics here $60-80 an hour seems to be the going rate, but than as you said, there ain't that many of them around here anymore.

Oops! I stand corrected about the classroom hours. I don't know any mechanics that make that kind of money, but I worked mostly in the airline industry. I'm sure some of the costs you pay go towards their overhead expenses. I also understand your concerns about liability... I briefly considered getting an Inspection Authorization...then common sense prevailed. It seems these days that everyone wants to sue everyone for everything, instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

-Pat

Last edited by Pat on Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[oscardeuce]

We face many of the same hurdles. It's sad that good people decide not to get their IA or enter the medical field due to worries about liability.

My BS took 4 years as a full time student.

[Bill Greenwood]

What I asked was, "has anyone seen the movie and did you enjoy it?" It had nothing to do with mechanics pay. O2 writes he knows nothing about my profession, but that I must not know what I am talking about. Personally I did not really enjoy the movie much, it is pretty sad. I thought he did make a good point that we are the only western naton without some govt medical system. I asked my British friends about the system in their country and they said it was good up to the point of needing a specialist, but could be added to with private insurance. I have heard some people compliment the movie.

[Pat]

What I asked was, "has anyone seen the movie and did you enjoy it?" It had nothing to do with mechanics pay. O2 writes he knows nothing about my profession, but that I must not know what I am talking about. Personally I did not really enjoy the movie much, it is pretty sad. I thought he did make a good point that we are the only western naton without some govt medical system. I asked my British friends about the system in their country and they said it was good up to the point of needing a specialist, but could be added to with private insurance. I have heard some people compliment the movie.

Bill-

My comments about mechanics' pay were addressed to OscarDeuce. I'm sorry no one else wants to participate in your thread.

-Pat Brown

[bdk]

I have not seen it nor do I plan to as I'm sure it conflicts with my politics. I remember Michael Moore actually was creative and funny when he first started, but now his cynical political views have poisoned his work.

I have seen clips from his movie Bowling For Columbine. That movie is so misleading regarding firearms laws it is ridiculous. He uses his media position to mislead for the sole purpose of furthering his WAAAAAAAY left wing agenda. I personally don't think that anything he does can be trusted to be accurate or balanced. I believe that Michael Moore is part of the "Hate America" crowd. If he likes the Cuban medical system so much maybe he should just stay there. I hear that civilians aren't allowed to own guns either so he should feel very safe.

All this is my opinion naturally. My apologies if I have delved too far into politics here.

[APG85]

Having lived overseas for awhile, our medical system is awesome compared to other countries. The wait for a specialist in the U.K. is insane. You don't want to have a cronic condition in many overseas countries. Theres a reason why that TB patient came hauling A__ back to the U.S. for treatment. "Sicko"? No thanks. I'll go see "Harry Potter" ...

[kmiles]

Just because the shop rate is $60-80 an hour, the people out doing the work are not getting that. Shops have a lot of overhaed like building rental/payments and insurance that can cost upwards of $20,000 a year per person to protect against those people that like to sue the mechanic when an accident happens. I think that if you did a survey of the A&P's and IA's that are on this board, you would fine that most of them see 25-35% of the shop rate. That tranlates into $18-25 an hour for the person that makes sure you are safe on that next commercial flight. I know a lot of mechanics in both private shop and airline sector, and a lot of them are leaving the field all together for other "lesser liability" jobs that pay more and require less training.

[Bill Greenwood]

BDK. my congrats on being honest enough to write you don't want to see the movie if it conflicts with your politics. Moore did point out in the other movie that Canada like the US has a lot of guns, but unlike the US does not havea lot of gun violence. It certainly is a thinking point.

[bdk]

Moore did point out in the other movie that Canada like the US has a lot of guns, but unlike the US does not have a lot of gun violence. It certainly is a thinking point.

True enough, but I wonder how Canada addresses the illicit drug issue/gangs which I think goes hand-in-hand with most of the gun violence in the US. I think Canada's demographics may indicate an overall more rural lifestyle as well.

[Jack Cook]

Has anyone seen the new movie, "Sicko" and did you enjoy it?

No, I won't because I think Moore's a self serving jerk

Bill,
Once again you seem to light the fire on a topic you know nothing about. I am a certified by the American Board of Emergency Medicine. I've practiced Emergency Medince inn an Urban Level 1 Trauma Center, a community hospital, and even for an HMO.

Did I miss something here or did Bill just ask a simple question

[fotobass]

I echo Jack's pbservation. Did anyone here edit Bill's original post? Is there something else somewhere that led to the outburst?
Holy heaven...there are times around here where it's ridiculous to even mention anything not air-related.