Tue May 22, 2007 11:30 am
rwdfresno wrote:This goes for any organized religion whether it be muslim, christian or jewish, but unfortunately it seems to be an overwhelming problem with a lot of evangelical christians these days.
Apparently you have never picked up on what the word evangelism means. Your whole argument you could replace religion with liberalism environmentalism, anti-gun people, anti-war people, pro choice people and the same points would apply. You may have noticed that when are particular group feels passionately about somethign that is what they do, and it is one of the rights that many people have died to protect. I suppose it is ok for groups that you may align yourself with such as anti-war in Iraq, environmentalists, or pro-choicers to speak up and try to convince other's of their beliefs but for those that do not agree with you should get off their soap box.
Ryan,
You bring up a valid point about free speech. For me it's not so much the the fact they are spreading the word as it is the content. When I see people like Dobson, Robertson, Phelps, and Falwell preaching their hateful views it just makes my skin crawl. Instead of preaching tolerance and helping others they focus on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and so-called moral values.
As you mentioned above I've never really aligned myself with any particular group.
Do I support the Iraw War?...NO! Do I participate in anti-war rallies?...NO!
Do I support abortion?...NO! Do I tell others what to do with their bodies?...NO!
Do I believe in environmental issues...YES! Do I participate in the "green" movement?....NO!
Are you noticing a trend here?
Just because somebody believes in something doesn't mean they have to try and convert the rest.
My view of organized religion in general is not too flattering. Most churches and religious organizations basically operate as a business. Everything comes down to $$$$...period! I've seen the shady side of some religious institutions while my wife was forced to work as a catholic school teacher for a few years before she got into a public school. Everything revolved around money. She would even get scolded if she disciplined a student who's parents donated large sums of $$$ to the church. She would be told things like..."you can't give Billy a detention, do you know how much his parents donate to the church?"
The priest was such a prick that he would refuse to do funeral services for parisheners unless the family made a "sizeable donation" to the church. Not surprising...this same priest eventually plead guilty to embezzling over $70,000 from the church (that's just what they could prove...the real amount was much higher).
Another church here in town had one of their secretaries diagnosed with cancer a few years back. She was only a year away from retiring and asked off of work so she could go through treatment. The church's idea of compasion for this person was to fire her and hire somebody else at substantially less pay.
The bible-banging group I mentioned earlier also has some questionable practices. They like to target the down & out people that have recently gone through a divorce, had a death in the family, lost their job, etc. Once they have them hooked and are members of the church they are then expected to give 20% of their paycheck to the church (automatic check withdrawl). Even is somebody loses their job or is having financial problems they are still expected to pay 20% to the church. It irks me to no end to see these "working poor" living off food stamps and barely making ends meet while at the same time giving money to the church which they cannot afford.
This same group also has a nasty habit of befriending old widows so they can try to convince them to sign over their house and estate to the church before they die or are placed in the nursing home. But remember...these people are doing the lord's work...haaaa! 
I think former Minnesota Governor Jesse ventura said it best...quote:
["Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for a weak minded people who need strength in numbers"
I'll get off my soap box now and stop ranting.
John
Last edited by Former Member on Tue May 22, 2007 11:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Tue May 22, 2007 11:32 am
If I say Burger King has better french fries than Wendys or someting of that nature than whateve
Everyone knows that McDonald's has the best french fries!
Tue May 22, 2007 11:57 am
I was staying at my grandparents many years ago ans they used to watch this preacher all the time on TV.. Anyway there was a video tape floating around of the same preacher. So when they sat down to watch the show, I flipped on the vcr and this is something like what they saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVRhe5zm4c8 . I sat down with them and kept a straight face as they watched.. After they show grandma said something is wrong with him this week... I went outside and laughed my ask off.. You just had to see that look on their faces... 
Tue May 22, 2007 12:04 pm
Ryan,
You bring up a valid point
John,
That is all I read.
As Phil knows I have selective reading as well as hearing. I think I have debated enough for this week. Have a good one!
Tue May 22, 2007 12:08 pm
Broken-Wrench wrote:I was staying at my grandparents many years ago ans they used to watch this preacher all the time on TV.. Anyway there was a video tape floating around of the same preacher. So when they sat down to watch the show, I flipped on the vcr and this is something like what they saw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVRhe5zm4c8 . I sat down with them and kept a straight face as they watched.. After they show grandma said something is wrong with him this week... I went outside and laughed my ask off.. You just had to see that look on their faces...
I guess it's safe to say this guy is "full of it!"
I'm surprised he didn't pull an Oral Roberts and ask his viewers to contribute millions of $$$'s or else god would strike him dead for polluting the earth.
John
Tue May 22, 2007 12:10 pm
rwdfresno wrote:Ryan,
You bring up a valid point
John,
That is all I read.
No problem Ryan...like I've said before on these threads we all have different opinions and points of view. In the end we all share the same love of warbirds and I still consider all of you my friends!
John
Tue May 22, 2007 12:36 pm
I haven't really had time to reply to all this and I see it's going down hill quickly, but I just wanted to add this quickly...
How many "kids" died in battle and the only naked woman they ever saw was on the side of their airplane?
How many "kids" died in battle and the only naked woman they ever saw was on the side of their airplane?
Tue May 22, 2007 12:42 pm
Django wrote:I haven't really had time to reply to all this and I see it's going down hill quickly, but I just wanted to add this quickly...
How many "kids" died in battle and the only naked woman they ever saw was on the side of their airplane?
That is a shame!
Tue May 22, 2007 5:25 pm
Are we about done here?
Can we get back to "chik-a-Boom" Beachgirl?
Can we get back to "chik-a-Boom" Beachgirl?
Wed May 23, 2007 12:32 pm
I will never understand why those of you are so perturbed by a thread continue to visit it. There is a little thing I like to call "self filter" which is essentially the self control to avoid the threads that you don't want to read.
I have the same advice for both the people who don't want to see nose art and the people who don't want to read this thread. Avoid it, we are big boys and girls and if you are visiting a public forum you should assume that once in a while you may read things you don't like.
I was just joking.
Although the thread has become somewhat ill mannered. Even from myself! 
Thu May 31, 2007 6:23 pm
After all this discussion...I still find one thing absolutely impossible to wrap my mind around.
Warbirds are WEAPONS OF WAR. They are designed to KILL PEOPLE and DESTROY THINGS. I say this as a professional warrior, someone who is willing to -- and has -- taken people's lives using weapons of battle. I have watched lives be extinguished by my own hand before my own eyes -- and I have done it because of a higher calling to the Constitution of my country.
BUT....
How is it that people don't find anything objectionable about these aircraft, these tools designed specifically to destroy, yet have a problem with nudity painted on an aircraft?
Seriously...I cannot comprehend a belief system that thinks that violence is okay and sex/nudity is taboo. That is 100% backward in my moral heirarchy.
Warbirds are WEAPONS OF WAR. They are designed to KILL PEOPLE and DESTROY THINGS. I say this as a professional warrior, someone who is willing to -- and has -- taken people's lives using weapons of battle. I have watched lives be extinguished by my own hand before my own eyes -- and I have done it because of a higher calling to the Constitution of my country.
BUT....
How is it that people don't find anything objectionable about these aircraft, these tools designed specifically to destroy, yet have a problem with nudity painted on an aircraft?
Seriously...I cannot comprehend a belief system that thinks that violence is okay and sex/nudity is taboo. That is 100% backward in my moral heirarchy.
Thu May 31, 2007 7:15 pm
Randy,
Good points, fairly stated, and taken I hope as intended.
It get's down to one's worldview, and WHO is the ultimate authority, and there are only a few choices.
There is an assumption being made either way that there are standards of morality, right and wrong.
That is not a statement I'm willing to conceed either way as I believe it's totally defensible.
Ultimately, I choose to believe in the God of the Bible, who's standards, I believe best match with reality. I'm not such a prude as you might think. I believe that relationships between men and women are a beautiful thing - IF carried out within the boundaries established by God. He says that public nudity is shameful ever since the fall of man, and I choose to try and live by that standard (I'm not perfect, mind you).
Warfare is an ugly thing, and is a result of the fall of man and sin, but there is also a time and place for warfare - as presrcibed by Biblical principles, to the best of one's abilities, and knowledge of the situation. There are times when one must resort to warfare in order to protect truth, right, property, and principle. Those wars are justifiable, and neccesary. That's why I personally believe that WW2 was WORTH the effort, while I'm not so sure about a lot of our modern "conflicts"... Personally I think that Afghanistan, based on the fact that the Taliban seem to have had direct links to the 9/11 attacks, was probably a legitimate target. I'm not sure where I stand on Iraq at this point, but I know where I stand on Kosovo, etc...
I don't justify needless violence, but I celebrate the generation of Americans who flew our aircraft to victory over enemies that were in many cases perpertrating evil deeds around the world. That's why I enjoy WW2 aviation.
Ryan
Good points, fairly stated, and taken I hope as intended.
It get's down to one's worldview, and WHO is the ultimate authority, and there are only a few choices.
There is an assumption being made either way that there are standards of morality, right and wrong.
That is not a statement I'm willing to conceed either way as I believe it's totally defensible.
Ultimately, I choose to believe in the God of the Bible, who's standards, I believe best match with reality. I'm not such a prude as you might think. I believe that relationships between men and women are a beautiful thing - IF carried out within the boundaries established by God. He says that public nudity is shameful ever since the fall of man, and I choose to try and live by that standard (I'm not perfect, mind you).
Warfare is an ugly thing, and is a result of the fall of man and sin, but there is also a time and place for warfare - as presrcibed by Biblical principles, to the best of one's abilities, and knowledge of the situation. There are times when one must resort to warfare in order to protect truth, right, property, and principle. Those wars are justifiable, and neccesary. That's why I personally believe that WW2 was WORTH the effort, while I'm not so sure about a lot of our modern "conflicts"... Personally I think that Afghanistan, based on the fact that the Taliban seem to have had direct links to the 9/11 attacks, was probably a legitimate target. I'm not sure where I stand on Iraq at this point, but I know where I stand on Kosovo, etc...
I don't justify needless violence, but I celebrate the generation of Americans who flew our aircraft to victory over enemies that were in many cases perpertrating evil deeds around the world. That's why I enjoy WW2 aviation.
Ryan
Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:39 am
Hey, just for the heck of it, can someone post the nose art in question?
Mind you, this is just for Scientifice Research to see if it was Intellegently Designed for the aircraft.
Color Me Gone!
Mind you, this is just for Scientifice Research to see if it was Intellegently Designed for the aircraft.
Color Me Gone!
Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:51 am
Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:09 pm
rwdfresno wrote:If I say Burger King has better french fries than Wendys or someting of that nature than whateve
Everyone knows that McDonald's has the best french fries!
They used to have the best fries, up until they changed the beef flavored oil to that new crap Veggie Heads cried about.
Man, why can't people just leave things alone. Because a couple of salad shooters cried about flavor in the oil, they had to change it for the rest of us meat eaters.
Goes to show you, the sqeeky wheel gets the oil.