Warbird Information Exchange

Believe what you will. I can't prove it, but if any state in the union was all right with carrying concealed back then, it was Texas. It's hard to believe that in a town where practically everybody but librarians and schoolteachers went armed, not one soul in there was carrying. But that's just me, right?

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Wench, good for the guard. The camous where I was in school 2 years ago had a guard shooting while I was there. Well trained sheriffs deputy did what he was trained to do.

But this simply proves my point: decent security and training is better than every body armed. If everybody is armed, you're placing an awful big bet on the idea that everybody SHOULD be carrying. You and I both know that ain't true. All I am really saying is we'd be better off placing real security on college campuses instead of allowing a bunch of dingbat college kids to run around with live weapons. I can't imagine a scenario that makes me more uncomfortable. Hell even SOLDiERS arms are locked up unless they're actually using them on duty. And for a reason. Look at how many suicides there have been in Iraq so far. And accidental shhotings. And misfires. You want to inroduce weapons to people who won't bother to actually TRAIN with them, when even trained soldiers don't carry all the time? I spend way to much time on campus to think that makes any sense at all.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Going to weigh in here.

First of all.


I have to call . Several things wrong with this. To echo earlier comments, I have never heard of that in any of the post massacre analysis. I took special interest in this as it was also one of the restaurants I used to eat at whenever I was passing through. Also, the notion that every one in a Texas restaurant was packing heat is absolutely true - back in the late 1800's! In the early 1990's, there would have been very few folks actually packing heat out in public (not going to/from ranges, ranches or leases). Maybe some on/off duty law enforcement individuals. After the concealed carry law went into effect, I can buy into the notion that the number of folks packing heat in any given restaurant has definitely risen.

Now Muddy, on your other points in this thread about better security and training I generally agree. I also do think that there needs to be some kind of firearms training program easily available to the general public. A good example is the current Texas concealed carry program, which has been discussed on this thread earlier. As part of the course, applicants must undergo training at an approved facility (i.e. range or gun shop - not your neighbors garage) and as part of a graduation exercise, must actually "qualify" with whatever weapon they bring to the course, demonstrating knowledge of weapon handling as well as safety protocalls.

As for the remaining 49 states, I cannot speak to what they offer.

Mike

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"So there I was, knee deep in a river I couldn't pronounce..."

Hey, all I can attest to is what I and those who knew me did. I did carry, and those I knew carried. Now, was the whle town of Killen carryign? Doubt it. Was more than one of those in that restaraunt? I'd bet a good paycheck on it. Only hero that day was the guy who put himself through the window. and the guy that rushed the gunam (obviously wasn't armed or he'd have shoot him)

BS maybe. But I know that restaraunt was a place grunts frequented, as it was a cheap place to eat and it wasn't a hellhole. Was everybody walking around with a belt hoslter and a six iron? No. As far as I ever saw, no grunts were there that day. But I'd bet there were folks there who si ply weren't ready to use what they had.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Interacting with my nephews I think alot of this falls at the feet of the video gaming industry that make light of pulling out a weapon and killing.. Also in a industrialized world people have never had to kill their food. They are far removed from their food sources and never had to raise farm animals that you loved, petted, and played with and then had to load on a truck for a slaughter house....

Sorry, but I don't buy into the whole "video games and movies did it" argument. Parental responsibility did it. Look around you and look at the parents that are out there. Maybe if they did their jobs you wouldn't have this happen. These kids (especially) who've used firearms to commit crimes have one thing in common - serious issues based in their parents' failure to do their jobs. Harris & Klebolt had absentee parents who traveled more than they were home. This kid had serious issues with depression and no one made sure he got help. I have a lot of friends who like firearms. Not one of them would ever consider using them except in the defense of themselves or others, and even then, it would be a last resort. Why? Because their parents & family taught them that way just as mine did. They taught us that firearms are very dangerous and should be respected as such. It's reinforced by the training we received going through concealed carry class, the military, ROTC/JROTC, Boy Scouts, Civil Air Patrol, the NRA, or any number of organizations that teach gun safety. We all enjoy the first person shooters and maybe it's made us a bit more "jaded" to violence, but we also know the difference between what we see & do on the screen and what we see and do in the real world. For me, I can watch quite a bit of violence and gore (I have no problem watching CSI), but show me one of those surgery "reality" shows, and I'm definitely not feeling well. That's the difference, when I know that it's not real, I don't have a problem. Those who've been the perpetrators of violence don't have that, and it sources back to how they were raised.

Muddy,

Killeen is real close to my extended family's stomping grounds. We have a ranch nearby and my uncle and aunt regularly work there. As far as Luby's goes, I would strongly doubt that those folks in the restaurant would've been armed. It's kind of like the whole locking your doors when you leave home thing. If you don't see the need, your not gonna do it. Believe me, there are plenty of

Most of the "good old boys" in that area (like my other uncle) who might've tended to eat as Luby's would be far more likely in my opinion to have a rifle in the back of their truck, for varmints, but not have anything on their person.

I can guarantee you that there probably were people packing heat the next day!

Also, a lot of the nice small guns that are concealable, got a lot more popular after the CC licenses became available, and a lot of them are really only useful for CC. The small pistol I occasionally carry isn't really that useful, except in an emergency for self defense.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

[quote="CAPFlyer"]Sorry, but I don't buy into the whole "video games and movies did it" argument. Parental responsibility did it. Look around you and look at the parents that are out there. Maybe if they did their jobs you wouldn't have this happen. These kids (especially) who've used firearms to commit crimes have one thing in common - serious issues based in their parents' failure to do their jobs. Harris & Klebolt had absentee parents who traveled more than they were home. This kid had serious issues with depression and no one made sure he got help. I have a lot of friends who like firearms. Not one of them would [b]ever[/b] consider using them except in the defense of themselves or others, and even then, it would be a last resort. Why? Because their parents & family taught them that way just as mine did. They taught us that firearms are very dangerous and should be respected as such. It's reinforced by the training we received going through concealed carry class, the military, ROTC/JROTC, Boy Scouts, Civil Air Patrol, the NRA, or any number of organizations that teach gun safety. We all enjoy the first person shooters and maybe it's made us a bit more "jaded" to violence, but we also know the difference between what we see & do on the screen and what we see and do in the real world. For me, I can watch quite a bit of violence and gore (I have no problem watching CSI), but show me one of those surgery "reality" shows, and I'm definitely not feeling well. That's the difference, when I know that it's not real, I don't have a problem. Those who've been the perpetrators of violence don't have that, and it sources back to how they were raised.[/quote]

Let me Rephrase, I think the video games help but are not the total cause.. You are correct about lack of parental involvment.. My brother in law doesn't spend time with his kids like he should..

We don't know much about the parents of the boy in Omaha except he was estranged from them. Also he expressed his love for them in his note. There are many kids born to single mothers, or raised that way, many kids with both parents working, or who may not have the Grandparents, etc. to help as when we were young.
Whatever the reasons, parenting or fast food or pollution or drugs, there seem to be lot of people who do crazy stuff.
I don't think gun training is the issue, when the kid used the gun he did it very effectively, just like a VC soldier. Less dangerous guns or less total guns might help, or at least make it harder to kill multiple people so effectively, but he could have found other ways also. When I was in college a disgruntled student shot 40 people. He had been a hunter and a marksman in the Marines, all the gun training did was make him an expert killer. He was my dorm consuelor my first year. He had an abusive Father, but a loving Mom and wife, was in grad school. Hard to figure, but he did have a brain tumor.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I'll eat that for a dollar. I did tend to hang out with a rougher crowd than most, but nobody spoke of it like it was abnormal. In fact, I don't think we ever really talked about it it, so it seemed pretty normal to me. I carried a .38 chief special that I still have, because it's all I really need.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

So they shouldn't issue guns on campus to every freshman?

So private security and police departments are the only groups that should be armed? Sounds like a police state to me.

Everyone does not have a desire to be armed. You wouldn't have a campus with a preponderance of the students armed, just as you wouldn't have a restaurant with the majority of the patrons armed (unless it was a donut shop). Some are afraid of guns and the responsibility that carrying one entails. Seems to me that the ones most fearful over an armed populace being responsible for their actions are those concerned that they themselves may not be responsible enough.

*giggles insanely*

you're totally right. I myself would be awfully irresponsible with a handgun lol! Oh wait. I forgot about that time I got drunk in Philly and killed all those third graders

And yes. Only properly trained security and police shouldl be armed in certain places.. Capital Hill, the White House...your local bowling alley (tempers flare...) Bars...and institutions where large numbers of immature, unstable people hang out. Colleges, high schools, halfway houses...Insane asylums...All have a certain similarity. And none should be a place where firearms are freely carried by the population. As I said earlier, I have no problem with the real world being armed. But to allow handguns on a colege campus is just as nuts as allowing them into a third grade class or a high school. Mind, when I was a kid we used to go duck hunting in the morning and leave the birds and shotguns in our cars. But our principle was informed of it, and made the decision of who could and could not be responsible for storing them individually. You couldn't do that any more without a lawsuit or possibly some kid going insane and using them to kill all the other kids.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

it just occured to me that BW may be right in a sense. His argument that video games are helping encourage the rate of shootings may be true.

What does the military do to increase hand eye coordination, and reduce inhibitions to shoot someone? They put your ass on the range and have you fire a couple thousand rounds at a round target. Then you graduate to profiles. The you graduate to popup profiles. By the time you're done, you don't think about pulling the trigger, you just do it. Video games maye well introduce that repetative syndrome in kids (especially sensitive to such indoctrination) and allowing them to block out he consequences of their actions more easily. I don't think video games really reduce their morals, but you have to look at society and how rough we've become, and if holywood and video games dont have somethign to do with it.

Not that I would agree with BW under any but the most dire circumstances, mind

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Wow - I think the planets just aligned or there might have been a harmonic convergence of some unknown factors. Muddy - I actually agree 100% with this quote!

Very well said, Muddy.

Mike

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"So there I was, knee deep in a river I couldn't pronounce..."

SEE? I'm not ALWAYS crazy!

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."