The Economy: What Would You Do?

[muddyboots]

No man has the "right" to make a "living wage".

You're right. No man has a right to life. Oh wait. You must live in Russia cause that's TRULY a communist thought. Here in America, we have a constitution. And it says every man has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You've lost focus by believing so much that the pursuit of happiness is the important bit. It's not. if it were it would have been the first right they enumerated. however, they did not. They chose to put LIFE first for a reason. Every man has a right the basic things every person must have to stay alive. Food, Shelter, Water Air. Since ALL of these things require a minimum living wage, well, I guess your whole argument just got pissed all over. But thanks for sharing your psychotic viewpoint fella. Anytime you want to test it, I suggest you quit your job, give all your money and possesions away, and go life in a dead tree. If you can survive a year, then we'll talk. Until then my point stands: You need a wage to survive. That wage has to enable you to pay for food, housing, and clean air and water. And our minimum wage doesn't do that, even if you work two jobs.


$2,000 a month for a 1thousand square foot apartment. Miniumum wage for a 40 hour job is a little over half that. If I work two fulll time minimum wage jobs in New York I still can't afford to pay JUST MY RENT in New York city. But then, I don't have a right to live do I? Silliest thing I have heard on this site yet. Well, except for some things that Broken Wrench fella says. But he's insane and therefore can be excused. You on the other hand, just sound like a bad person by your comments. Hope you don't really think all that crap.

[Broken-Wrench]

[quote="muddyboots"][quote="Rod Schneider"]
No man has the "right" to make a "living wage". [/quote]
Well, except for some things that Broken Wrench fella says. But he's insane and therefore can be excused. You on the other hand, just sound like a bad person by your comments. Hope you don't really think all that crap.[/quote]
[color=red]
Comrad Muddy, Have you been drinking "people's vodka" from the LITHUANIAN SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC factory Number 49 again alone again!. Insane! I like that, Little pigs little pigs let me in.!!!!

Last edited by Broken-Wrench on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[RyanShort1]

$2,000 a month for a 1thousand square foot apartment. Miniumum wage for a 40 hour job is a little over half that. If I work two fulll time minimum wage jobs in New York I still can't afford to pay JUST MY RENT in New York city. But then, I don't have a right to live do I? Silliest thing I have heard on this site yet.

Shows how liberal economics (at least I suspect so in New York) can make a situation difficult and the idiocy of an across-the-board minimum wage. I bet you could still find a decent apartment for $5-600/mo here.

Ryan

[A2C]

Let me simplify this whole discussion. This is about the economy, and how it is affected by big government.

Big Government raises taxes, and supports gov't controlled businesses Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae as well as big government twisted the bank's arm to lend money to people who couldn't pay it.

One of our core industries, real estate was damaged by this.

This has been the downfall of our economy. Big government is bad for the economy and bad for freedom.

Any politician who supports big government whether it's Clinton or Bush is doing something that is detrimental to the economy.

Big government includes high taxes, federal mandates, and spreading the wealth, like B.O. wants to do.

It's that simple, there's nothing else to it.

[Rod Schneider]

No man has the "right" to make a "living wage".

You're right. No man has a right to life. Oh wait. You must live in Russia cause that's TRULY a communist thought. Here in America, we have a constitution. And it says every man has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You've lost focus by believing so much that the pursuit of happiness is the important bit. It's not. if it were it would have been the first right they enumerated. however, they did not. They chose to put LIFE first for a reason. Every man has a right the basic things every person must have to stay alive. Food, Shelter, Water Air. Since ALL of these things require a minimum living wage, well, I guess your whole argument just got pissed all over. But thanks for sharing your psychotic viewpoint fella. Anytime you want to test it, I suggest you quit your job, give all your money and possesions away, and go life in a dead tree. If you can survive a year, then we'll talk. Until then my point stands: You need a wage to survive. That wage has to enable you to pay for food, housing, and clean air and water. And our minimum wage doesn't do that, even if you work two jobs.


$2,000 a month for a 1thousand square foot apartment. Miniumum wage for a 40 hour job is a little over half that. If I work two fulll time minimum wage jobs in New York I still can't afford to pay JUST MY RENT in New York city. But then, I don't have a right to live do I? Silliest thing I have heard on this site yet. Well, except for some things that Broken Wrench fella says. But he's insane and therefore can be excused. You on the other hand, just sound like a bad person by your comments. Hope you don't really think all that crap.

At least try to be accurate. I NEVER said that "no man has a right to life"!
My point is that no one has the "right" to be able to live a guaranteed lifestyle in spite of making poor choices in life. I can't afford to rent in New York City, either. I guess I should expect that someone should have to give me enough money to make up the difference? If you want to make enough to pay rent, food, and such, then get a job that pays enough to do that. Minimum wage jobs are intended to provide income to people like students who need some extra cash, NOT for career incomes. I worked as a stock clerk in a grocery store during High School and Tech School. There is no way I could have made a career out of being a stock clerk, which is why I was going to school to better myself. The job did provide me with lessons in how to manage money and prepare for later life.
Or maybe we should just make the minimum wage $100,000 per year for everyone. Would that fix things????

Edited to add: You may need to reread the Constitution. The phrase "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not in it. That is in the Declaration of Independence. Just as important, but different document.

[muddyboots]

$2,000 a month for a 1thousand square foot apartment. Miniumum wage for a 40 hour job is a little over half that. If I work two fulll time minimum wage jobs in New York I still can't afford to pay JUST MY RENT in New York city. But then, I don't have a right to live do I? Silliest thing I have heard on this site yet.

Shows how liberal economics (at least I suspect so in New York) can make a situation difficult and the idiocy of an across-the-board minimum wage. I bet you could still find a decent apartment for $5-600/mo here.

Ryan

well I've sure as hell looked and never did. And that was five or six years ago. Mind, that was for a 1000 foot apartment, but maybe people in new york like cramming a family into half taht size. Are people shorter in New York?

You sure as hell can't find it in LA, and I live in Jackson now, and a basic one bedrom is about 600, so...I think you need to look again. Oh wait, you mean a 500 dollar apartment in a crack den. Souds sweet to me. Now people have a right to live, just not teh nice part of the worls where you get to live :p

[muddyboots]

No man has the "right" to make a "living wage".

Well, except for some things that Broken Wrench fella says. But he's insane and therefore can be excused. You on the other hand, just sound like a bad person by your comments. Hope you don't really think all that crap.

[color=red]
Comrad Muddy, Have you been drinking "people's vodka" from the LITHUANIAN SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLIC factory Number 49 again alone again!. Insane! I like that, Little pigs little pigs let me in.!!!!

See there? Not only is he crazy, he can't tell the difference between an American and a Russian. Wench,a little advice: The Americans are the ones who believe in life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You're on the wrong siiiiide Wench!

[Broken-Wrench]

Where's everyone eh ? Ok I forgot on Saturday everyone is at party meeting at Bar.

[RyanShort1]

well I've sure as heck looked and never did. And that was five or six years ago. Mind, that was for a 1000 foot apartment, but maybe people in new york like cramming a family into half taht size. Are people shorter in New York?

You sure as heck can't find it in LA, and I live in Jackson now, and a basic one bedrom is about 600, so...I think you need to look again. Oh wait, you mean a 500 dollar apartment in a crack den. Souds sweet to me. Now people have a right to live, just not teh nice part of the worls where you get to live :p

Um, did you read my post? I said Here - meaning where I live. That was my point. I live in a right-to-work state where things aren't as overpriced and inflated.

Oh, and please don't call my area a crack den. I think my area's plenty nice to live in - but that's a choice, but a right..

Ryan

[Broken-Wrench]

[quote="muddyboots"][:[/quote]

See there? Not only is he crazy, he can't tell the difference between an American and a Russian. Wench,a little advice: The Americans are the ones who believe in life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You're on the wrong siiiiide Wench! [/quote]

Comrad Muddy, That's true, It's great to have the liberty to set at home and pursue happines on the 15th and 30th at the package store when the goverment check comes.

[muddyboots]

At least try to be accurate. I NEVER said that "no man has a right to life"!
My point is that no one has the "right" to be able to live a guaranteed lifestyle in spite of making poor choices in life. I can't afford to rent in New York City, either.

It's the same thing, yo. If I can't afford to pay for rent and food on the minimum wage, I can't afford to live in our society. And a poor education isn't a choice. If you grow up in hinds counrty mississippi and your parents are average in hinds counrty mississippi, you will end up unable to read and do basic arithmatic. It's not tha bad in most places, but going to college for most american kids is a amtter of winning the lottery.

I have not said anyone has a right to live a particular lifestyle. I have said taht everyone deserves a living wage, and that it is entirely possible for everyone to hae that, without screwing up the economy, and taht it is a flat lie to claim that you can't pay your employees enough to live on AND make your own profit.

Living in New York isn't a choice for the majority of the people who live there. Remember Sam Kenisons soultion to all the starvation in Ethiopia? "MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOOD ISSSSS! AAAAARGH!" He was being fascetious. He wasn't stupid, or selfish,or insane, he just said it t be funny.

I guess I should expect that someone should have to give me enough money to make up the difference? If you want to make enough to pay rent, food, and such, then get a job that pays enough to do that.

You're back to Sam Kennison territory, bud.

Minimum wage jobs are intended to provide income to people like students who need some extra cash, NOT for career incomes. I worked as a stock clerk in a grocery store during High School and Tech School.

Congratulations. Unfortunately your experience isn't the experience of about 12 million people. Six million families with children recieve ALL of their wages from minimum wage jobs. WoW Now I'd chose THAT lifestyle

There is no way I could have made a career out of being a stock clerk, which is why I was going to school to better myself. The job did provide me with lessons in how to manage money and prepare for later life.
Or maybe we should just make the minimum wage $100,000 per year for everyone. Would that fix things????

Congratulations. You have now fallen entirely into Kensesian Phsyics here. Maybe while you're on your world tour you can stop off in Ethiopia and pick up some of the local cuisine and brinng back. I could dig a good wat with some flatbread.

The phrase "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not in it. That is in the Declaration of Independence. Just as important, but different document.

Your right. Our preamble talks about why the constitution was written. Like to provide for the common good. That would be all our good, not just business owners and rich kids who could afford to go to college and the very very few of us who inherited large amounts of property and can therefore not work at all (Lucky me)

I charge fair rent on my land. Almost all of what I make goes back into putting the kids of my tenants through college. Why? I grew up with tem, and they have always been there for me. I live better than most of them, but I make damned sure that when I go to bed at night they can to. And I have employees. None of them make minimum wage. And I *surprise* am not only not starving, I can afford their wages.

It's a flat out damne dlie to claim that the minimum wage is damaging our economy. I don't care for it myself. We should be paying people enough to live on without a mandated law. The problem is that most American business owners are cretins who don't deserve the wealth taht life has bestowed upon them. If there wasn't a law about it, the vast mojority of them would'nt even pay that much. I'm not making this up, it's the way it was. before we had a minimum wage.


I'm not sure how it's been twisted asround tah I like the minimum wage, btw. I think it does more harm than good. But tehre is no way to instil a moral comass in people, so laws will have to do.

sorry for te awful spellig btw. I just fell down my attic steps and I think I broke my damned thumb. typing one handed

[Broken-Wrench]

[quote="muddyboots"][quote] I NEVER said that " the very very few of us who inherited large amounts of property and can therefore not work at all (Lucky me)

I charge fair rent on my land. Almost all of what I make goes back into putting the kids of my tenants through college. [/quote]

Could this attitude be attributed to that the fact that you really didn't earn the land that you were given therefore you feel guilty inside for having so much which in turn is why your putting your tenants kids thru college? Why have them pay rent at all and why bother with military disability???

[A2C]

Guys:

You're down to petty stuff here. I think we pretty much agree! Let's skip the minute details. I see where broken wrench is coming from. He's saying the big gov't now, and electing the most liberal present in history turns America into the USSA. I totally agree, comrades. In my mind we are the USSA until the country recovers from it's current trend towards socialism.

As for Ryan. I agree with you, you don't like where things have gone.

As for muddyboots, I think the minimum wage is not a right. It's an American's right to choose their own destiny. If you want your destiny to be inside a McDonalds Restaurant, then you deserve $6.00/hr. If it's you choose to make $100,000/yr or 1,000,000/yr it's your own choice.

[262crew]

Its very evident that everyone is passionate about this subject and it is a direct reflection of our current situation, shi/ty governing shi/ty economy shi/ty "leaders" and before you jump in my s..hit I tend to lean to the right but I am not so clouded with the propaganda that, that is all I see and hear. I listen to left and right radio and draw my own conclusions and opinions! My question is why are some posters so harsh? Why are you attacking each other so viciously? We are AMERICANS and we are all in this together no matter if its a Alfred E. Newman look a like or the "messiah" The president elect has not even taken office yet and you guys are crying chicken little! I gave our current "leader" a chance (although I had a bad feeling from the start) before I started to really disapprove of his actions. We also have something else in common WARBIRDS! So lets try and be more respectful of some Else's opinions and thoughts. No sense in getting p/ssed about a thought of someone else!

[A2C]

No 262 crew:

I stick with my convictions. B.O. said what he said and you can't get a Leopard to change it's stripes. I'm not buying it.

What you're saying sounds like Chamberlain said in Britain before the start of the 2nd World War. When he said give Hitler a chance, he said he wants to be peaceful, so let's believe him. He doesn't want to invade any countries, etc. In spite of the fact that these were said.

B.O. has said what he's said, and I take both his associations with Rev Wright, and William Ayers, as well as his choice of Rahm Emmanuel as very serious and troubling indicators. I also take what he has said about our troops, and spreading the wealth with great alarm.