Warbird Information Exchange

From the thread about Gary's restoration project



Ok, I don't want to hijack Gary's thread, which I'm really enjoying. That's why I'm posting this here (and yes I saw the other post about it being a weapon of warfare and I don't think that there's anything wrong with weapons of warfare - Prov. 21:31), but your comment about the Sistine Chapel is kind of ironic. I wonder how they justified that in the light of their own Scriptures that say that it is a shame to show nakedness, and specifically also say that whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery in his heart, which is a direct violation of one of the Ten Commandments, which are repeated in both Testaments.
I won't post anymore on this subject on this thread...

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I am not sure how the thread got on the subject of nose art, but I am not offended by most nose art. Sure there is some that makes me blush a little, but that is what our boys put up there, that is what they were fighting for. Nose art in my opinion is historical art, just as cave drawings are.

I guess I am not sure, are you upset over the nose art, or the thread going off topic. I by no means want to take sides on anything, but just want to find out what happened, and look at it from both sides.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Hi Ryan,

It's fine. I can see both sides and maybe in this instants both sides are right. Nose art is part historical, and in the same case part offensive.

-Nathan ( )

Ummm...no offense Ryan but nobody is forcing you to look at the nose art!

I really don't see what the big deal is?

John

Well, kind of both. I think we're all a little hypocritical at times, and it frustrates me.
As far as Gary's thread, as you know I am a frequent lurker at WIX on break at work, and at home. I'm doing PR stuff for the ALS group I'm part of, and try to keep up with warbird aviation stuff in general, as a pilot who loves to learn, and hopes to be involved with a heavier aircraft in the future. I have enjoyed learning about the aircraft, have appreciated the relative cleaness of the posts, and was sorry that I encountered that picture in the process.

As far as nose art is concerned, I ABSOLUTELY know that it's a part of the historical record, and don't want to deny it. I'm not one to totally censor everything, but even most non-Christians draw the line somewhere.
The flip side of the historical arguement is that prostitutes, adulterers, rapists, porrnn movies, child molestors etc... are also part of the historical record. The question is not whether or not it's part of the historical record, nor is the question whether or not it should be discussed, or mentioned, but in how it should be portrayed, and if some things should or should not be displayed. Sometimes by the way you portray it, you can slide down a slippery slope. Ultimately it's a moral issue. If it's wrong to view a naked person in the flesh unless you're married to them or are in certain family situations, such as washing babies, then why is it OK to look at paintings of persons in said circumstances? And you know that those aren't just anatomical medical studies of some questionable sort. Those pieces of "art" were there STRICTLY for the lustful enjoyment of the men - something that the Scriptures I read say are wrong. Lest you forget, there actually were debates over this during the war as well, and some places it was eventually squashed. Probably because of the remnants of a Christian society left at the time.

I'm about to leave for the ranch, so I can't finish what I'd like to write here, but I think it's an important topic that needs to be addressed for future generations.

Enjoy your weekend!

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Well, there are some threads that I just know to stay away from, but so far, the B-24 thread had been ok, and I was not happy to see that picture. When it came up, I immediately hit the back button on the browser, but you never know... Especially if you work some places.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

As you may know I don't care much for Ol 927 nose art but what really surprised me was that so many people liked it and called it "family friendly" like Ryan,and that it would look good on a kids shirt (including me) but the more I thought about it,do we want kids running around with a shirt that has a (fake) cartoon airplane dropping bombs on it
I'll take real nose art with a nude and swear words on it over that anyday

Phil

I can show you hundreds of pictures of cartoon "real" nose art from WWII so the cartoon image has nothing to do with authenticity. As far as people lusting over nose art I doubt many men have looked at those images were lusting over primitive paintings of ladies on the sides of airplanes. It was that it represented their girl back home which they loved. They were kids, in a stressful situation and it gave them something to do when they weren't puking in the toilet because their friend got his head blown off. It is not even real, it is swirls of paint on the side of an airplane.

On the other hand would I wear a jacket of a nude women or paint in on my plane, probably not it really isn't family friendly.

Anyway, I guess we all disagree on this subject. Ryan, good for you standing up for your values though, I wish more had your convictions about things.

I like the B-24 nose art. It is cool to see something other than the pin up girl, which don't get me wrong is cool. It is just that other types of nose art is out there.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I think everyone on this website knows that cartoon images were and are put on warbirds to this day but the image on Ol 927 does not match any of them that I know of. Maybe I should have said made-up nose art.

Phil

Thats why I was hoping for the U.S. flag or Colonel "Mosquito" with twin tails!

Phil

I really like the new nose art on the B-24. And why isen't it authentic? It is very much authentic. I've seen many nose art on WWII aircraft that did not have a nude painting.

The style (hand painted cartoon nose art) is authentic but the image is not.
I think we maybe starting to Hijack this thread now

Phil

I appreciate, Ryan, that your convictions lead you to choose not to do certain things. I would just like to ask, exactly how is the distaste for a drawn depection of the female form (because you reference your Christian beliefs) any different from a muslim stoning a woman to death because her ankle was exposed?

See, I really don't want to get into a religious discussion here, but you did raise the point. Just because I see a pretty woman in a bikini, or buck-nekkid, (whether it's art as drawn on the planes or in real life flesh & blood) does NOT mean that I, or anyone else, has "lust in their heart". To say that is tatamount to admitting that the orthodox muslims have the right idea, with the whole "viels and hijabs" thing. In my mind, if you believe that God created humans in his image, then exactly how is it *wrong* to admire what he hath wrought? No different than looking at a stunningly beautiful view, after all wasn't He responsible for both the view AND the pretty woman? Note that one can observe and admire, without finding it necessary to attempt to partake in the goods advertised.

And, finally, I have to say that I find this a little on the ridiculous side. After all, we are talking about nose art, for gosh sakes, not a centrefold from the latest Hustler.

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Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts

Nose art and religious beliefs, can't anything be simple anymore?

We love the planes (designed to kill) , but watch out for the paint job or you may end up in he11?

Organized religion, the root of all evil.


Mike