Warbird Information Exchange

The economy is a disaster, probably the worst it has been since the depression, some of the former foundations of our country like Ford, GM are almost bankrupt. GM sales are down 45% and they are almost out of cash. Banks, housing, etc. are crippled. Please don't give us all that nut case stuff about the new Pres not being born is the U S, or who is at fault .the question is:

WHAT WOULD YOU DO, NOW?

What would you do, who would you appoint to the cabinet? Where would you focus the bailout assets? Can anything help at this point?

Obama is a smart guy, you don't get in Harvard Law School on your golf game or your rebounding. BUT he is like the backup QB that has been put in the game the final 10n minutes after the other team has already run back three interceptions for scores. And he doesn't take office until Jan. 20. And his education is Const Law, not economics.

So what to do now? And can anybody pull this out in 2 or 4 years?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I'd put Ron Paul (or some other folks who are even better, but don't have name recognition) in charge of the economy... and leave the private sector alone except to prosecute anyone who is genuinely committing criminal actions. If a business is not being run properly - allow it to collapse. It will hurt in the short run, but will be better in the long. Truth is that propping up up failing business that have already proven their incompetence is going to worsen the situation, as is dumping money into the system and devaluing the assets of those who are being responsible with their money. It's not like your fellow Americans are going to starve, we have the highest standard of living in the country and if some people have to turn off their TVs, work in those jobs that "Americans won't do", and eat beans and rice instead of yummy junk we'd be just fine pretty soon.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Remember back in the 70's, all three car companies almost went tango uniform? They bounced back with a lot of tariffs on foreign cars and a loan from us tax payers. Chrysler also hired Iacocca to kick butt.

The Messiah needs to get rid of the clowns who helped bring on the Fannie Mae crisis, but it is unlikely to happen since he just hired one to be his chief of staff. The other major players are Dodd and Frank, both need to be fired from their current posts.

If we stay a capitalistic nation we need to let these dinosaur companies go under. If we become a socialist country, I guess us tax payers will be helping out the dinosaurs and become like Europe.

two things:

Could you please refrain from calling the man who is about to become the President of the United States "the Messiah"? And could you please quit referring to me as a socialist?

The first is demeaning to the office and to my country and to me and I've bled quite enough to demand some respect, even from you. The second is just demeaning to me and the rest of the democrats in the forum, and again, I've bled quite enough to demand some respect. Even from you.

MKTHX

I think in order to turn our economy around in a couple of days as all the conservatives seem to think President Elect Obama has promised is not in the books.

I wonder if we shouldn't require that all stock bought be held a minimum of 1 year before being sold. the speculation is what's at the basis of this problem, so why not put some real brakes on it as it doesn't really DO anything?

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Bill, I was have been impressed by Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz's writings on this subject lately. He answers exactly your question in the November issue of Vanity Fair.

Some of the highlights of his plan include:
- R&D into alternative energy sources. Domestic oil is just a band-aid and ethanol is a dead end that has turned into just another farm subsidy.
- Skew taxes back toward the higher income brackets, in part by retooling, capital gains and estate taxes and the mortgage deduction.
- Stronger regulation of financial markets, which have proven (yet again) that they can't self-regulate responsibly.
- As far as bailouts, nobody likes what looks like a windfall rescue of either the incompetent bankers or the homeowners who took out loans they couldn't afford, but unfortunately both the banks and the working poor are too essential to our economy to leave out in the cold. Just try to make sure it doesn't happen again (see regulation, above).
- Invest in infrastructure, education, and technology -- things with double benefits, short- and long-term.

Most of this stuff should be ideologically neutral, except for the taxes part, and so should be possible to enact. That's good because neither the socialists nor the libertarians, to use each sides stupid label for the other, has the answers. Also, the few hundred people that we usually blame the mess on, whether they are really responsible for it or not, cannot get us out of it. The economy cannot be fixed by the president, by bank CEOs, by Fed chairmen, by congressional committees. It's the other 300 million of us that have to get the job done. Most importantly, the middle and lower classes. Everything we do should be oriented to getting out of their way so that they can be productive again. The economy is built on their shoulders and will ultimately be fine if we stop screwing them over.

August

The one flaw in his plan is - "Skew taxes back toward the higher income brackets, in part by retooling, capital gains and estate taxes and the mortgage deduction." If that is done, who is going to provide the jobs for the "lower and middle classes" that you state will get us out of this mess?

I have got about 40 employees in my two businesses, if my taxes continue to go up, what is the motivation for me to continue to expand and hire more people? So I can pay even more taxes?

I have a lot of friends who are small business owners who make more than the moving target presented by Obama for more taxes. Universally, the have all described to me that they intend to cut back the growth of their various businesses and reduce their employee overhead if this comes to pass.

This could just be ancedotal, and probably is, but the danger is that if you increase the tax the small businessman, the one who provides the jobs, they will retract their growth plans. I know I will.

Small businessmen didn't create this problem. Wall Street and the banking systems...assisted greatly by a Congress who rejected proper oversight, even when it was requested by the sitting Administartion, caused this problem. Let's not penalize the real engine of the American economy.

What many people don't realize is that estate taxes are the death of many small businesses. I personally know of several that had to be liquidated to pay the taxes.
Just about everything in an estate has already been taxed once if not twice. Usually the money used to buy something has been taxed as income. A sales tax may have also been paid on an item. A luxury tax may have also been paid. If you dispose of it you will also pay a tax. Why pay a third or fourth or fifth tax?

I'll stay out of the snide political comments.

Les

Muddy, 52% of the people in this country believe he is the Messiah, that's why they voted for him hoping he will "Change That We Need" this country and save us from the evil capitalists. Are you saying they are wrong and he's not the Messiah?

Where in my comment did I call you a socialist?

I agrree with BigGrey on the estate tax. I know of several farmers (not corporation farmers) who had to sell part of their land to offset the estate taxes.

Guys,half of you are on the line of what went wrong in the past, or what Not to do, ie make you pay more.

Where are the answers to what TO DO now? K5083 is going that way, but those are really more of long term tactics. Investing in alternate energy for instance, even if practical, won't help in the near future.

Ryan, B-29, do you really feel that it is best for our country to have the Big 3 go out of business, with the hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake, not only their own employees and families, but those of their suppliers and all those who depend on them? You can't sink a ship and have only the engine room men or just the captain get wet. What if Walmart lays off 20% of their staff?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

[quote="muddyboots"]two things:

Could you please refrain from calling the man who is about to become the President of the United States "the Messiah"? And could you please quit referring to me as a socialist?

If the muddy boot fits, wear it. You guys didn't seem to have any respect for the Last president so were just returning the favor. It's going to be a long fun fiulled for years muddy. O' Hail the Messiah Lord Obama.
Change in progress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6BXZYaqt5U

For those who think that we should let companies fail, especially in the financial and related sectors, take heart. It is happening. There are a handful of large banks and insurance companies that really cannot be allowed to fail, because the consequences for the rest of the economy -- credit shortages, unmanaged risks -- would be too dire. Maybe no bank should be allowed to get that big, but they were. However, there are a lot of other failing firms in the financial industry and adjacent areas -- accounting, auditing, corporate law -- that have failed or are failing that you don't hear about, and Wall Street currently has enough fear and pain to satisfy even the most Darwinian among you. I ride the train into NYC every day almost exclusively with people from that sector, and everyone is afraid of losing their job, if they have not lost it yet. My own law firm collapsed and died three weeks ago, we all got sacked with 2 days' notice, and nobody came along offering to bail us out. It is like that throughout the city.

Muddyboots, I feel your pain man, but chill. The cretins have called Obama a terrorist and worse, and if he can take it, so can we. He'll do some things right, screw some things up, and eventually we'll get another right-wing clown in there that we can make fun of. Anyway, the "Messiah" label is not wholly devoid of insight; there is a substantial population that feels almost that way about him. Next time you're with some Tuskegee Airmen, ask them what they think of using that term. I'm guessing, based on the reactions of African-Americans of that age whom I've talked to, that they'll say it's not that far wrong.

August

The messiah is a judeo-christian demigod. No one at ALL other than republicans have suggested that he might be an incarnation of god. What we HAVE said is that he seems to offer answers that we believe in--or that he is simply not George Bush with a a bald spot. So again, I'd appreciate you not sneering at the next president of the United States and those of us who voted for him by referring to him as the savior of all creation and God's chosen son. We and he are perfectly aware that he is a human being, and fallible. All you are doing is being insulting, and rude.

As for calling me a socialist, when you make comments which suggest that liberals are socialist, and trying to turn the US into a socialist country, then you are indeed calling me a socialist. Now you can either stop, or I can start another pissing match and drag moderators into it. By repeatedly using the word socialist to refer to me and my party, you are being inflamatory and rude. You can make your point just as well by not using the world socialist or communist or messiah or wonderboy, or whatever. You can. in fact, discuss what you'd like to see done without any nasty references to our future president, or either of the two parties. The question was, after all, what would YOU do NOW. You're both dragging to thread off topic and making it a political thread again. So again, I ask you to please stop before I take real umbrage. It's nothing personal, really, I'd just rather erad the thread without being forced to hear your political rantings about our next president and my political leanings, which are incorrect.

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Bill, I'm bein as good as I can

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Reinstate the Glass-Steagal act. Investment banks and commercial banks serve different purposes. The actions of traders should not be allowed to take down commercial banks that exist to make loans and service customer accounts.
Revise the rules for mark-to-market accounting. Low volume traded securities with long maturities should be exempt from mark-to-market rules.
Reduce the size of the US military by 25% within 2 years. We need Special Forces troops on the ground that can SPEAK THE LANGUAGE. Not more Gee Whiz gazzillion dollar weapons systems. Start closing bases around the world. We do not need a military base in every country. There is no country on Earth that can put up a credible fight against a single US Fighter wing. I have been in Afghanistan 9 out of the past 12 months and know what I'm talking about here.
Import German Health care professionals to revamp the US health care system. Those who whine about socialist system medicine have never been overseas and seen how good other countries have it.

That should keep the new administration busy for the first 90 days.

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All I did was press this red button here...

Bill, I'm just pondering the cause and effect of bailing out a mis-managed company. Where do you stop? To remain a capitalistic country this needs to happen to cure the illness, doesn't it? I'm not a money man, so I don't have a good answer. What I don't like is the CEO of a failed company just goes out and gets hired by another company and screws it up too. I've seen that a lot in the airline industry.

k5083, sorry about your job. I've been there a couple of times myself. Stupid me, I remained in the same industry too!

1. Socialism - A social system in which the means of producing and distributing goods are owned collectively and political power is excercised by the whole community.

2. "We need to spread the wealth around" B. Obama (Messiah to some people of the 52%)

1 + 2 = Socialism