Warbird Information Exchange

This is a shame especially with the Space Shuttle program ending...

Reporting from Washington and Cape Canaveral, Fla. - NASA's plans to return astronauts to the moon are dead. So are the rockets being designed to take them there, if President Obama gets his way.

When the White House releases its budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was to return humans to the moon by 2020. The Ares I rocket that was to replace the space shuttle to ferry humans to space will be gone, along with money for the Ares V cargo rocket that was to launch the fuel and supplies needed to return to the moon. There will be no lunar landers, no moon bases.

"We certainly don't need to go back to the moon," one administration official said.

Instead, according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's plans, NASA will look at developing a "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low-Earth orbit. That day will be years away.

The White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects -- principally, researching and monitoring climate change -- and on a new technology research and development program designed to someday enable human exploration of asteroids and the inner solar system.

Everyone interviewed for this article spoke on condition of anonymity, either because they are not authorized to speak for the White House or because they fear for their jobs. All are familiar with the broad sweep of Obama's budget proposal, but none would talk about specific numbers because these are being tightly held by the White House until the release of the budget.

But senior administration officials say the president's proposed spending freeze for some federal agencies is not going to apply to the space agency in this budget. Officials said NASA expected to see some "modest" increase in its current $18.7-billion annual budget -- possibly $200 million to $300 million, but far less than the $1-billion boost agency officials had hoped for.

They also said that the White House planned to extend the life of the International Space Station to at least 2020.

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

...and what does this have to do with WARBIRDS???

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Earn my respect and never lose it.
Demand my respect and never gain it. -Me

...just another plane dreamer.

I saw this story in the paper this morning... My first thought was political in nature and so I wont bring it up here...
My second thought was aviation related....

I have the sinking feeling that we are regressing in aviation technology.
We used to have supersonic airliners, we used to have supersonic spy planes, we used to have a vigorous space exploration program, we used to have a growing general aviation community.

Now we have new technologies in airliners that seem to be place holders....composites to make aircraft lighter and more efficient, not bigger faster farther. The 787 is very cool...but is it progress?

We have light sport gen-av planes, getting smaller and slower instead of robust, fast long lasting and fast. A new 182 costs twice what my house is worth...
We have limits on production of new warplanes mainly because of complexity and the lethargy of our military manufacturing and procurement culture. We don't have enough F-22's and the F-35 is in danger of going down the same road. The best new idea, the V-22, has been pilloried in the press. (they all cost too much) and will something like the B-52 ever be built again?

When was the last time an X-plane captured the imagination of anyone?

And now to kill off the idea of exploration beyond our little planet ( if we can't "afford" to go to the moon what makes anyone think we will pony up the cash for a trip to Mars?)
Personally, I was very excited about a return trip to the moon. I am just old enough remember Apollo and was ready to see man finally doing something other than circling the globe.
And NASA is CHEAP compared to some other government programs out there....

I think we as humans need to push our limits and explore and what better way to go than UP!

A little story....I was at the Pate Museum on their next to last day, in December...and there was a mom and a little boy, he was around 6 or 7 years old, they were looking at the Mercury capsule mock-up display and the little boy asked "whats that?" mom said it's a spaceship..."oh" he said, and they looked inside at the mannequin in a space suit. He asked "what's that?" mom said "it's an astronaut" ..... the boy asked "What's an astronaut?" .... I almost cried....

Rant over....

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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I started a thread in the military matters forum which covers the same subject:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=34517

Zane, My 3-1/2 year old son knows all about astronauts so don't despair. My son has been to "Space Day" at POF, has watched the moon landing anniversary on TV, has sat in a mock-up space capsule and frequently plays with a Space Shuttle model and knows it is a space ship, not just an airplane. Kids of "People of Wal-Mart" (Lady Gaga/Britney Spears afficianados) will never know much about anything...

Ztex..., relax.., we will still have all those cool toys.., it will just have corporate sponsorships on the side instead of

NASA

"Money makes the world go round...."

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S.

I completely agree ! We as a human race are no longer really progressing anymore . In the last 10-20 years technology hasnt changed that much . Yeah computers are faster and they have more storage etc , but nothing has changed . Cars are a little safer , go a little faster and use a little less fuel . But they havent changed that much .

I personally feel its the death of America as a superpower . its inability to show the world its true might with technological progress . Its consolidating what it can to save money before its demise . The next superpower , the one who is willing to sacrifice its own people for progress , a country thats willing to push boundaries and not be afraid . Who will it be , probably China or India .

For me progress ended when the Commodore Amiga died in 1994 . IBMs biggest competitor was dead , progress stopped and the age of money making began . I dont know how it will end , but eventually somethings bound to happen .

hates stuff....especially stuff he can't do like fly into space or OWN a warbird. If he can't then NO ONE should. socialism baby!

As a citizen, like most of us, I was excited to see us send men to the moon. But that was a very long time, and many trillons of taxpayer dollars ago.
I don't see any real benefit to doing it over and over. I listned to an astronaut speak a week ago, interesting, but not really helping the avarage person.
Wouldn't it be great if the public was given a direct choice in how their taxes were spent, and got to vote directly on major projects?
As for a pride as a citizen, I would feel more of it, if when I drive around Boulder and Denver, I didn't see all those homeless people out in the cold, and many of them are veterans. And in the decades to come there will be many more of them from the current wars. I'd rather see them in a program than to look up and see another space flight and it could be done vastly cheaper.
I am sure there are many needs our country has more than another space flight, no matter how spectacular it is to those who like it. I just saw a progam on cancer last night, did not get all of it, but I do recall one fact. Despite that is seems there is a lot of cancer research, the fact was that we only spend about a dollar a year per person on this research and it does yield meaningful and direct, and TANGIBLE results that benefit many people.
If we want patriotic displays, they could do a grant to have FiFi flying for probably less than the space program spends on pr.

As for not having politics on WIX, that is a fiction. If you look up at the top of the display page of WIX, there is an anti Pres Obama ad showing Obama in a green surgical cap, and the ad is against the medical ins reform. What we don't have on WIX or at least haven't had is a balanced and open discussion of politics or anything in the vicintiy of it.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

A

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Did anyone see the show "Living for the Moment" on CBS last night? It was about a Colorado man with ALS who has about 2-5 years to live, and the show wanted to give him some of his dreams. One was watching a night shuttle launch with his family...and Buzz Aldrin. Buzz also gave them a personal tour of KSC...when they walked in the doors, the 12 year old son of the man said, "That's Buzz Aldrin!" They then alluded to the fact that the boy wants to become one of the first to walk on Mars. Sadly, with this program going away, there is little chance of that happening unless free enterprise steps in. (The dad also flew in an L-39 at Chino)

The current administration touts how important math and science are, and acknowledges how the US is lacking behind other countries...it seems like a space program is more important than ever right now...from an inspiration standpoint...just my two cents.

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Scott Greenfield

I'm with Bill. We need a space program, but I don't see the point in a new moon adventure in the near future. There are bigger fish to fry.

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Denver Warbird, I saw the same show on technology progress, but what struck me was the huge college run by the corporation in India to train more engineers and tech people, they had 14,000 or so students.
Inida was giving people more schooling, not just an expensive,but not directley related govt.
program.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Just in terms of technology, when you consider that the entire Apollo Program could be processed with just about any of today's laptop computers - just a single computer mind you - I'd say we've come a long ways in terms of technology. Just look at cell phones and all they are capable of doing. There's plenty of progress being made, it's just that it's not all "in your face" like the Space Race was. Don't give up on current generations and what we're doing just yet...

Zack

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Curator - EAA Aviation Museum, Oshkosh, WI
"Let No Story Go Untold!"
http://www.timelessvoices.org

Zach is sooo right. The iTab, UCAVs, new drugs, nanotech -- this is technology at its most useful. I was enamored of manned space flight when I was 12 years old too, but our technology should not be driven by what is big, loud, fast, enhances our national prestige, or fulfills the dreams of 12-year-olds. By now it is obvious that our droids can explore other worlds better than we can, and a lot cheaper; there is no reason to send people there except just for its own sake. When people go back to the moon or to Mars, it should be after the droids have prepared a nice climate-controlled place for them to stay while they're there.

August

I think the biggest shame is that the politicians (of all stripes) have led this country away from production and towards service. IMHO, America as a producer can and did so much for helping other nations rise up themselves and improving the standard of living in other places (competition is good for all). Having us as a 'service' country is a big step backwards. No offense intended towards anyone's political beliefs.

Rich

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Rich Kolasa
www.crystalgraphix.com