T-6 Costs

[bdk]

True, I guess what I was trying to say is that you cannot highly modify the airframe like flush riveting, bigger engine, different prop, etc.

Side panels can be flush riveted according to the rules. You can pretty much use any T-6 part, so mixing and matching the best parts is crucial. Some of the Mae Wests are better than others for instance.

[sdennison]

T-33 Driver wrote:
Beer inventory for the hangar fridge--adds another $7/hr to operating cost assuming a six pack consumed by a crew of two in the debriefing (and it's the good stuff).

Brother, you're going to need a bigger 'fridge!

[snj-5]

Some other mods I've seen and/or heard of;

Glider cloth on the control surfaces.
Bald (slick) tires
Cockpit entry steps milled into an streamlined shape.
Tape over every seam
1/8" aluminum plate used for instrument panel(s) instead of 3/16"
Bondo all over the wing leading edges

Other thoughts:
T-6F fuselage frame is the lightest
Harvard IV cowl is (supposedly) more streamlined than a T-6/SNJ cowl.
Early horizontal stabs are lighter (less stringers).

Question: Do the rules allow composite parts like the ones offered
by Murdo Cameron?

http://www.cameronaircraft.com/T-6/T-6_ ... n_prod.htm

Bela P. Havasreti

[King]

Some other mods I've seen and/or heard of;

Glider cloth on the control surfaces.

[mike furline]

Tim charges $5500 for all five control surfaces and BDK has is at $16000 ($15000 in labor)?

Tim you are giving them away!

Regards,
Mike

[bdk]

What is the shop rate he's quoting? You have to strip, repair as necessary, epoxy paint, and then cover. Oh, and there are the trim barrels in the elevators and rudder that usually require work.

I figure it took me about 30-40 hours apiece to do mine, and it wasn't my first fabric job.

Is Tim having the local A&P school cover these surfaces?

In California I would guess a quality reliable fabric shop would charge $75/hr. Am I off base here?

[Tim Savage]

What is the shop rate he's quoting? You have to strip, repair as necessary, epoxy paint, and then cover. Oh, and there are the trim barrels in the elevators and rudder that usually require work.

I figure it took me about 30-40 hours apiece to do mine, and it wasn't my first fabric job.

Is Tim having the local A&P school cover these surfaces?

In California I would guess a quality reliable fabric shop would charge $75/hr. Am I off base here?

Brandon-

No local A&P school

But you are correct about all the repairs necessary. We charge $5500 just for the fabric...no repairs to the structure, epoxy of the structure etc. and that is only up through silver. Color coats are hourly. Since we tend to do things in multiples we have lower costs...but you are correct it is a time consuming process. I think you are on target for costs if you just drop your surfaces off to be done at a fabric shop.

[EDowning]

At one time I had calculated the exact cost of every aspect of flying the T6. Then I adopted the "Aviation Theory of Relativity". Relative to the the Skyraider, the T6 is free. So I no longer keep track of T6 expenses at all.

[MX304]

Minimum weight is enforced, but I know of at least two that had to add ballast to make weight. Of course they added back in a way that allowed them to put the CG in the best spot for racing. The there's always:


Change the angle of a few things
Cut out every other one of something to save weight.
Tighten up all the gaps
Bondo everywhere allowed.
Take out some thing and add some thing to make more power.
Make sure the gear stays all the way up in the turns under high G loads.
Tweak the prop for you HP and RPM
Match a set of good cylinders.
Coat the XXXXX with XXXX to reduce friction..

etc, etc, etc

[bdk]

You'll also typically get a better shop rate for a complete restoration than to do one small job.

The T-6 is blessed ( ) with lots of opportunities for aerodynamic improvement!

BTW, If the gear doesn't stay all the way up in the turns your uplocks are broken!

[Warbirdnerd]

At one time I had calculated the exact cost of every aspect of flying the T6. Then I adopted the "Aviation Theory of Relativity". Relative to the the Skyraider, the T6 is free. So I no longer keep track of T6 expenses at all.

Thanks for that Eric, I needed a good laugh at the end of a long day...
Nice to see the SPAD getting so much love in the recent mags.
The Korean train attack article in this months Flight Journal is a great read and of course there are 2 AD-1 articles in the new WD.

[Warren_C]

Just thought I'd share some thoughts on T6 racing

Last year the slowest 6 qual'd 208 and the fastest 239, a bone stock 6 would probably run the course 195-200. We qual'd at 219. We managed 3rd in the Silver.

Our a/c is a Harvard Mark IV, we have done a few things over the last 8 years, to remain in the field. But, for the most part were running a stock machine.

We operate under a 14 page Technical Specification citing what we can and cannot do. The tech team checks each a/c, prior to qual. It is intrusive, every now and again someone gets caught trying to be sneaky.

We operate on 100LL, min 50 gals, which is checked by tech using a calibrated stick. Fuel samples are taken after each race to check for additives

The class has scales, each race aircraft must weigh a minimum of 4000 lbs, including the pilot and 50 gals of petro.

So, now you want to compete - as a pilot the requirements are - Commercial rated with 500 hrs sel and 40 hrs in type, time in type must be within the 24 months prior to the race. You will have to pass PRS in June "Rookie school", and I think the T6 class is also headed toward all participants having a FAST card or all have some formation training.

Nobody, really makes money doing this, some just lose less. Remember you are running T/O power for the whole week. The only break the engine gets is after the race is over.

Warren
Crew Chief, Race #444
MYT-6 Air Racing Team