Flyboys vs The Blue Max

[Tom Crawford]

Flyboys just came out this week in DVD. What do you think? I say "No comparison". The Blue Max is far better...especially using REAL airplanes
in REAL aerial sequences and the ability to establish THE plot...plus Ursula
Andress...WOW...Tom

[Russell Smith]

Flyboys just came out this week in DVD. What do you think? I say "No comparison". The Blue Max is far better...especially using REAL airplanes
in REAL aerial sequences and the ability to establish THE plot...plus Ursula
Andress...WOW...Tom

Tom, IMO, both movies have their advantages and disadvantages. Both are loaded with innacuaracies. I agree with you that TBM is better in terms of real flying sequences, and yes, Ursula Undress...er... Andress.

Flyboys, on the other hand, has recieved a lot of flak for not sticking to the "real" story of the Lafayette Escadrille. What most most people aren't aware of, however, is what Flyboys got right. There are a LOT of very accurate details if you know what you're looking at.

For instance, the little note from Cassidy that 'Rawlings' reads at the memorial service for Cassidy and Porter is taken almost verbatim from a genuine note left behind by the real James McConnell of Escadrille N.124. And the love interests in the story...at James McConnell's funeral, no les than 3 weeping French lasses showed up.

The lion - I've heard where one movie critic stated that the idea of a lion for a mascot was ridiculous. Obviously that critic didn't bother to read up on the subject before dispensing his "expert" advice. The LE had not one, but TWO lion cub mascots, one of which was indeed named "Whiskey". In fact, as in the movie, Raoul Lufberry trained Whiskey to pounce on unsuspecting French soldiers who visited the field.

The character "Cassidy", I think, was based largely on Raoul Lufberry. You can see traces of that in the fact that he was battle-hardened ace, as well as the fact that he was the only pilot that got along with "Whiskey", the lion.

The the rich Harvard drop-out that was sent off to war by his father(don't remember his name), reminded me a lot of Elliot Springs, in that he came from money, dropped out of Harvard and had a very rocky relationship with his father. His death in the movie (i won't give away how he died) is, I would say, the scene that gripped me the most. I have read about that happening to so many airmen, but to see an actual depcition on-screen of that happening really tugged at my soul. Ironically, that is how Lufberry persished, although he opted to jump rather than use the gun.

I've heard some critiscism that the filmamkers were trying to be politically correct by placing an african-american in the movie. Not so. The character "Eugene Skinner" was based on the real life pilot Eugene Bullard. Bullard, an African-american, scored 2 victories while flying with the Lafayette Flying Corp (the expanded version of the LE). He earned the nickname "the Black Swallow of Death". France honored him after the war by making him a “Knight of the Legion of Honor”. Between the wars he opened a very successful nightclub in Paris. During WW2 he joined the French resistance. After the war he was again honored by France by being invited to the Arch-de-Triumph to relight the “eternal flame” after WW II was over.

Other things that I found commendable:
- the attention to small details. the cuts of the uniforms, the "Bottle of Death", the various accoutrements of the WW1 airfield
- the aircraft, although being CG renderings for most of the flick, were far more accurate in their appearance that their earlier TBM counterparts.

I wish I could keep going, but the fact is that it has been several months since I have seen the movie and my memory of the specifics of the movie have faded a little.

Russ

[Tom Crawford]

Thanks Russ for the review. I guess I need to watch it again or read a book somewhere because I just didn't get the on screen character development by seeing it only once. I never had a problem understanding where Bruno Stachel came from. But I sit here tonight and for some reason I can't remember a single character's name from the movie, only a few faces and Jean Reno is one of my favorite actors. I bought the movie so I'll watch it again and see if I get more out of second experience. It may be because that I saw the "The Blue Max" when it made it's first debut on the wide screen that I had my guard up.
Again Russ, thankyou for the review, and keep creating...
All the best,
Tom

[Russell Smith]

...I just didn't get the on screen character development by seeing it only once. I never had a problem understanding where Bruno Stachel came from.

I do agree with you, there. Bruno Stachel's character development was great. Seems that these days, unfortunately, character development has taken a backseat to visual effects.

russ

[Punisher05]

I tend to agree, but I thought Rawlings had at least some character development...going from a loner back home to part of a fighting team...maybe it's just me.

I liked both movies, but Flyboys made me cringe a few times. I would have forgiven them not using actual rotary engines but they kept focusing on them! Argh! My poor wife couldn't figure out why I'd grip the seat in those scenes

[Punisher05]

Saw the movie again last night (dad wanted to see it) and I had a quick question for the more educated amongst us.

Why would Cassidy want to have the streamers pulled off of his plane when he went hunting for the "Black Baron"? Weren't they used to distinguish a CO's plane?

[mustangdriver]

I think that maybe it was supposed to be man against man. Kind of like the cop taking off his badge. This is just a guess. I like the movie very much.

[Russell Smith]

Saw the movie again last night (dad wanted to see it) and I had a quick question for the more educated amongst us.

Why would Cassidy want to have the streamers pulled off of his plane when he went hunting for the "Black Baron"? Weren't they used to distinguish a CO's plane?

The streamers were used to designate the flight leader on any given mission. They could and would be moved from plane to plane, depending on who was the flight leader for a mission. Since Rawlings was going up alone and leading no other aircraft, removing the streamers made sense.

Russ

[Russell Smith]

I watched the movie again recently as well. One thing that I had forgotten about was the depictions concerning the guns. The idea of a pilot taking a hammer up with with him to beat on a jammed gun breach was indeed a very common practice. and the depiction of pilots personally checking their own ammo for dented cartridges - right on. Lufberry was well known for that. In contrast, Bruno Stachel would NOT have reached up out of the cockpit of his Pfalz to pull the firing lever on his Spandaus. The firing button would have been located on the control column. (I really do like "The Blue Max", despite my critiscisms!)

I stated in my previous post that the Harvard kid reminded me of Elliot Springs, but in watching the DVD extras I see that he was actually modelled after Norman Prince, which makes more sense. Norman was indeed a Harvard drop out who had a rocky relationship with his overbearing father. After the war (and Norman's death) his father began insisting that Norman came up with the idea for the Lafayette Escadrille - a statemeent that was VERY heavily disputed by the other founding members.

The character of Beagle was based on Bert Hall, a man whom few of the other LE pilots liked. Like Beagle, they, at one point, accused him of being a German spy.

[Ollie]

Why didn't they used the real characters instead of mix matching everything?

Real life's too boring perhaps?

[Punisher05]

The firing button would have been located on the control column. (I really do like "The Blue Max", despite my critiscisms!)

Fascinating, I always thought they had to reach up and fire the guns manually...not just on the stick. I thought they added that into Flyboys for simplicity. What about the wing-mounted Lewis guns?

[Russell Smith]

The firing button would have been located on the control column. (I really do like "The Blue Max", despite my critiscisms!)

Fascinating, I always thought they had to reach up and fire the guns manually...not just on the stick. I thought they added that into Flyboys for simplicity. What about the wing-mounted Lewis guns?

The wing mounted Lewis gun had a chord that was attached to the trigger and ran down into the cockpit. Not sure if the chord was rigged directly to the control column or not, but the gun could also be swung down to fire upward.

As far as the control column, in the Fokker aircraft the column had a button located at the pilot's thumb. In fact, I think the DVII may have had 2 buttons - one on each side of the column.

russ

[Fleet16b]

Russel is correct with regards to the lion cubs.

There are manygroup pics of the LE posing with the cubs.

Their names were Whiskey and Soda

[mustangdriver]

I think Flyboys was good. It at least sparks an interest in people to learn more about the subject. A few friends that went to see it with me that are not aviation are actually considering getting their pilot's liscense now. I for one am trying to learn more about WWI aviation.