Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:26 pm
Well, no great memories of famous names, just my first encounter with a real-live P-51. Was back in the middle 60's, in the CAP cadet days. We had a summer weekday exercise at Tallahassee Municipal Airport going on, and what should fly in but a real, live P-51. Belonged to a very nice gent name of David Maytag, and was silver-gray in color. I suppose he took pity on these two cadets standing there wide-eyed, so he allowed us in the the cockpit, explained all the "taps", etc. I seem to remember him telling us to "keep working at it, and maybe you'll get to fly one of these someday."
Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:46 pm
Wow. There are some AWESOME stories. I liked the General Rall story, I was honoured to meet him at Udvar Hazy. http://www.b26marauder.com/toybox/Aviat ... d_Jase.jpg
I've also been privileged to meet, among others, Scott Crossfield (and all the positive comments written here are right on!), Sherman Best (pilot of Flak Bait), Gen Tibbetts, and one of my personal favourites, Col Gail Halvorsen.
Kinda neat backstory about Col Halvorsen: I flew a couple missions with him on the BAHF C-54, and found him to be a great person. I happened to be going thru some papers of my mom's, who died in 1995. I found an Xmas card, to my mom, from Col & Mrs Halvorsen a year or two before she died. Turns out that, when mom was in Germany in the 50's & 60's as a DoD civilian, she worked for Col Halvorsen, and they kept in touch all those years. I told Col Halvorsen that, next time we met, and he couldn't believe what a small world it was. Neither could I, for that matter!
I have been so blessed, to be able to do what I love to do, keep these old planes flying, and honour those who served in whatever capacity. It has allowed me, as well as the RedHead and our kids, to meet folks right out of the history books. You just can't put a pricetag on that.
I've also been privileged to meet, among others, Scott Crossfield (and all the positive comments written here are right on!), Sherman Best (pilot of Flak Bait), Gen Tibbetts, and one of my personal favourites, Col Gail Halvorsen.
Kinda neat backstory about Col Halvorsen: I flew a couple missions with him on the BAHF C-54, and found him to be a great person. I happened to be going thru some papers of my mom's, who died in 1995. I found an Xmas card, to my mom, from Col & Mrs Halvorsen a year or two before she died. Turns out that, when mom was in Germany in the 50's & 60's as a DoD civilian, she worked for Col Halvorsen, and they kept in touch all those years. I told Col Halvorsen that, next time we met, and he couldn't believe what a small world it was. Neither could I, for that matter!
I have been so blessed, to be able to do what I love to do, keep these old planes flying, and honour those who served in whatever capacity. It has allowed me, as well as the RedHead and our kids, to meet folks right out of the history books. You just can't put a pricetag on that.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:18 pm
Not long after I became a volunteer with the Classic Flight, I made my first trip to the hangar and asked if there was anything I could do? 'Well the flying wires on the Rapide need a bit of paint on them as it is taking part in the display at Flying Legends this weekend, you could do that for us' said the Chief Engineer.
So I masked them up and gave them a bit of paint.
It would be really cool to fly into a show one day ,I said. 'I'm sure there are some spaces he said ,go up the office and tell them I sent you'.
So I found myself flying down to Duxford in the Rapide and what a great day it was.
When we got back to Coventry there was a Spitfire on the ramp which turned out to be ML407, The Grace Spitfire, which was rebuilt by the late Nick Grace and is now flown by his wife,Carloyn .
After having a wander round it and my picture taken in front of it, one of the staff said,'Carolyn is upstairs doing her paper work ,why not go and say hello?
I thought about it but said nah, I will just stand and watch her leave.
When she came down and started to preflight the aircraft. I was watching her do this, I didn't want to disturb her as she was getting into the zone,when she looked at me and said' would you hold this for me ,I need to check the oil', so there I was holding the oil filler cap of the spitfire that shot down the first German aircraft on D day and I wanted to say some thing but didn't want to sound a gibbering fool!
I said how much I admired what she did and thanked her for keeping the Spit flying. Carolyn posed for a picture and then climbed in, started up and taxied out, giving me a wave on the way. I felt ten foot tall!
Another great memory I have is when we flew to Kemble last year to do some pleasure flying, I was having some lunch at a resturant that is on the flightline there and saw a young lad aged about four with his parents, he had a couple of metal aircraft models that he was pushing around the table. So I asked his Mom and Dad if he would like to have a look at our Rapide and Devon that were parked the other side of the fence.'That would be fantastic' they said ,'he would love it'. So I took him by the hand and I showed him around the aircraft, told him what all the parts were called and what they did, introduced him to the pilots and got him in the cockpits. Then I took him back to his parents,I expected his Dad to come with us but he stayed sitting, I must have looked trustworthy! He had a huge smile and his parents thanked me for my time, I said it was my pleasure and hopefully he will continue his intrest in avaiation as he grows up. You never know he might just remember the day he went the to the other side of the fence and had a close up look at some old aircraft...
Apologies for the ramble, but those are two of my favourite memories, so far, of being a volunteer.
Alan
So I masked them up and gave them a bit of paint.
It would be really cool to fly into a show one day ,I said. 'I'm sure there are some spaces he said ,go up the office and tell them I sent you'.
So I found myself flying down to Duxford in the Rapide and what a great day it was.
When we got back to Coventry there was a Spitfire on the ramp which turned out to be ML407, The Grace Spitfire, which was rebuilt by the late Nick Grace and is now flown by his wife,Carloyn .
After having a wander round it and my picture taken in front of it, one of the staff said,'Carolyn is upstairs doing her paper work ,why not go and say hello?
I thought about it but said nah, I will just stand and watch her leave.
When she came down and started to preflight the aircraft. I was watching her do this, I didn't want to disturb her as she was getting into the zone,when she looked at me and said' would you hold this for me ,I need to check the oil', so there I was holding the oil filler cap of the spitfire that shot down the first German aircraft on D day and I wanted to say some thing but didn't want to sound a gibbering fool!
I said how much I admired what she did and thanked her for keeping the Spit flying. Carolyn posed for a picture and then climbed in, started up and taxied out, giving me a wave on the way. I felt ten foot tall!
Another great memory I have is when we flew to Kemble last year to do some pleasure flying, I was having some lunch at a resturant that is on the flightline there and saw a young lad aged about four with his parents, he had a couple of metal aircraft models that he was pushing around the table. So I asked his Mom and Dad if he would like to have a look at our Rapide and Devon that were parked the other side of the fence.'That would be fantastic' they said ,'he would love it'. So I took him by the hand and I showed him around the aircraft, told him what all the parts were called and what they did, introduced him to the pilots and got him in the cockpits. Then I took him back to his parents,I expected his Dad to come with us but he stayed sitting, I must have looked trustworthy! He had a huge smile and his parents thanked me for my time, I said it was my pleasure and hopefully he will continue his intrest in avaiation as he grows up. You never know he might just remember the day he went the to the other side of the fence and had a close up look at some old aircraft...
Apologies for the ramble, but those are two of my favourite memories, so far, of being a volunteer.
Alan
Last edited by ALAN.L on Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Grandfather
Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:32 pm
Well, there is another B-17 Veteran story that hits closer to home. This one involves my Grandfather.
As I got older through the years of growing up, I got more and more interested with my Grandfathers involvement during WWII. I always wanted to find out more information about what he did...stories, kills, life in England ..etc. My Grandfather served with the 390th BG / 569th BS flying out of Framlingham England as a waist gunner. At this point in time that was about the only thing I could get out of him. The rest of the family said not to talk to him about his experiences, and that it just wasnt a good idea.
As a kid growing up I followed my Dads footsteps in the warbird community and soaked up as much knowledge as I could. And after the CAF joined up with LSFM. As the years went by, flying with Thunderbird I really became attached to the Vet's that would show up and realized I didnt know that much about my own Grandfather! I decided it was time to start asking questions. With his health and age I knew that If I didnt inquire about his life in WWII, that one day no one would really ever know!!
Over the past few years my Grandfathers health was going down fairly rapid. He had had several strokes and was losing his sight. And with each stroke it seemed that he was loosing his memory as well. I would start out by asking a few simple questions...and things went really well. He would talk about stealing bikes on base or getting into a fight over an extra piece of chicken fried steak.
And one day our conversation took us to a mission that he was on headed to Regensburg. I knew by the tone of his voice and his shaking leg this wasnt an easy thing to talk about, and I wasnt pushing the issue. He started talking about 4 FW-190's lined up abreast and coming in hard....and then thats when the story ended right there. I knew the conversation was over.
To my knowledge since WWII he hadnt been close to a B-17. He didnt want anything to do with it once he came home from the war. But he thought it was very cool that he flew in B-17s and I fly on Thunderbird today. A few years back LSFM had a Salute to Veterans Day at the museum. I asked him if I wanted to attend, and to my surpise he wanted to go!! By this time he was just about completely blind from the strokes and needed a wheel chair...But being the strong man that he was..he was there and with his 8th AF cap on!! I had both Grandfathers and two great Uncles there that day,all WWII Vets and I couldnt have been any more proud! They called the Vets names out so they could get a certificate/plaque...and when they called out my Grandfathers name I proudly brought it to him, hugged him and told him THANKS for serving our country!
After the ceremony I asked him if he wanted to go outside and see the B-17. I knew that he wasnt going to be able to see it in detail. The only thing he wanted to do was to just be able to touch it. So I took him to the waist gunners postion and he placed his hand out as if he were reaching out to some old friend...it was at this time I felt like somehow things were complete...
Im sad to say that he passed away last year...
I have a framed picture here in my office of a 390th BG B-17 here in my office. And below the picture has his signature...God Speed Grandad!!
As I got older through the years of growing up, I got more and more interested with my Grandfathers involvement during WWII. I always wanted to find out more information about what he did...stories, kills, life in England ..etc. My Grandfather served with the 390th BG / 569th BS flying out of Framlingham England as a waist gunner. At this point in time that was about the only thing I could get out of him. The rest of the family said not to talk to him about his experiences, and that it just wasnt a good idea.
As a kid growing up I followed my Dads footsteps in the warbird community and soaked up as much knowledge as I could. And after the CAF joined up with LSFM. As the years went by, flying with Thunderbird I really became attached to the Vet's that would show up and realized I didnt know that much about my own Grandfather! I decided it was time to start asking questions. With his health and age I knew that If I didnt inquire about his life in WWII, that one day no one would really ever know!!
Over the past few years my Grandfathers health was going down fairly rapid. He had had several strokes and was losing his sight. And with each stroke it seemed that he was loosing his memory as well. I would start out by asking a few simple questions...and things went really well. He would talk about stealing bikes on base or getting into a fight over an extra piece of chicken fried steak.
And one day our conversation took us to a mission that he was on headed to Regensburg. I knew by the tone of his voice and his shaking leg this wasnt an easy thing to talk about, and I wasnt pushing the issue. He started talking about 4 FW-190's lined up abreast and coming in hard....and then thats when the story ended right there. I knew the conversation was over.
To my knowledge since WWII he hadnt been close to a B-17. He didnt want anything to do with it once he came home from the war. But he thought it was very cool that he flew in B-17s and I fly on Thunderbird today. A few years back LSFM had a Salute to Veterans Day at the museum. I asked him if I wanted to attend, and to my surpise he wanted to go!! By this time he was just about completely blind from the strokes and needed a wheel chair...But being the strong man that he was..he was there and with his 8th AF cap on!! I had both Grandfathers and two great Uncles there that day,all WWII Vets and I couldnt have been any more proud! They called the Vets names out so they could get a certificate/plaque...and when they called out my Grandfathers name I proudly brought it to him, hugged him and told him THANKS for serving our country!
After the ceremony I asked him if he wanted to go outside and see the B-17. I knew that he wasnt going to be able to see it in detail. The only thing he wanted to do was to just be able to touch it. So I took him to the waist gunners postion and he placed his hand out as if he were reaching out to some old friend...it was at this time I felt like somehow things were complete...
Im sad to say that he passed away last year...
I have a framed picture here in my office of a 390th BG B-17 here in my office. And below the picture has his signature...God Speed Grandad!!
Re: My Grandfather
Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 pm
Elroy13 wrote:Well, there is another B-17 Veteran story that hits closer to home. This one involves my Grandfather...
...God Speed Grandad!!
Between you and Paul I am glad that I have a box of Kleenex on my desk today.
You know... a person can be interested in the war, and read about it, study it, be thankful and so proud of the men and women that served, but then to hear the very personal stories like this one... really puts things into perspective.
Thank you for sharing your story again. Also, thank you for sharing the B-17 with me with me while I was down there. It was then (during my tour of the Thunderbird) that you first spoke of your grandfather with me, and cleary its a very emotional thing for you. I am glad I got to be a part of something so dear to you and your family.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:26 pm
Thank you Steph! And you are welcome anytime! 
Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:44 pm
Elroy13 wrote:Thank you Steph! And you are welcome anytime!
Not only do I want more good stories this April, I want bazookas too!
Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:02 pm
jpeters wrote:skybolt2003 wrote:jpeters wrote:Don't mean to dampen the spirit of this thread but I do remember a not so neat encounter when I was a teenager. It was at the E.A.A. fly-in in Oshkosh in 84 or 85 (can't remember which) and I was only about 14 or 15 years old at the time. Pappy Boyington was there selling copies of his book and signing them. Since I was a big fan of the T.V. show I was very excited to meet the legend and waited in line for quite some time to purchase his book and to get his autograph. Unfortunately I was greeted by a cantankerous, burrly old man that snatched the book out of my hand, hastily scribbled his signature and said "next"...all without so much as a hello, thank you, or even making eye contact.
Over the years I've heard of Mr. Boyington's battle with alcoholism and the personal demons he dealt with throughout his life which might explain his abrasive personality and behavior.
John
Think about what you just wrote – especially in context of the other posts here on this topic. Oh, sorry he didn't live up to your expectation of how a hero should behave.
Like I said...I don't mean to dampen the spirit of this thread but I figured I'd share one of the very few disappointing encounters I experienced. As a teenager I really didn't have any kind of expectation of Mr. Boyington and was just happy to meet the legend in person. I won't argue that he is, and always will be, one of America's true hero's. I have never questioned his service and still respect the man for what he did.
I have met many other "hero" pilots or have watched them speaking in public such as George Gay, Chuck Jaeger, Bud Anderson. For the most part these guys were very polite, open, and accomodating to people. If memory serves me correctly George Gay was also signing copies of his book that same year. Even in his advanced age he was still happy to chat with the person about his experiences and to at least acknowledge the person with some common courtesy.
As for your two earlier posts I think you should sit back and rethink before you start hammering away on the keyboard. The man might be a hero but he certainly also had his flaws (as we all do). Sorry...but I'm not going to pretend like he was some congenial person when in fact he wasn't.
John
I have had a not so great experience with Pappy, he didn't want to sign something other than a book, (which I also have) but he was suffering from cancer in his later years and I'm sure that made him more cranky than ever, and I've never let the experience bother me at all. His line at the end of his book is one of my all time favorite quotes and I'm always reminded of it in every day life, especially when the latest scandal erupts about some star or sports athlete.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:02 pm
dup
Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:11 pm
Back in 97 or 98 I was at the MAAM WWII Weekend and there was this really beautiful P-51 sitting on the ramp, named Nervous Energy V. The owner Wallace Sanders was letting people climb up on the wing and check out the cockpit. He helped me on the wing and said "hey, want to sit in the pilots seat? " I said YES. He pointed some things out and talked a little. Well I went to a show at Elmyra NY the same year and saw that same pretty airplane, went and looked at it, he said aren't you the girl from Reading that sat in my plane earlier? I said yep. I couldn't believe he remembered me. He let me sit in the plane all day...(yes all day....I wouldn't have moved for anything in the world) He explained everything I asked, told me about himself and flying B-17's in the war. At the end of the day we exchanged addresses and I began writing to him. Well when I saw the plane in NJ, not only did I sit in it, I got a ride. Well after all his stories of the B-17 and he found out I had never been in one he took me for a tour of one, and while he was sitting in the pilot's seat he told me after the war he was never going to sit in another B-17. He had a tear in his eye as he told me how he used to push the throttles up! Wallace told me stories of the war and really shared his love of flying with me! He's one of the reasons I love those old airplanes.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:02 pm
I can only judge some one on ow they treat me. I would give any of you guys and gals the same chance. Gen. Yeager and Victoria were very kind to me everytime I e-mail them, and when I met them in person.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:19 pm
Mustangdriver: "I can only judge some one on ow they treat me. I would give any of you guys and gals the same chance. Gen. Yeager and Victoria were very kind to me everytime I e-mail them, and when I met them in person."
Based on observation, you are in a VERY small minority, then. I'm happy that Charlie was kind to you.
Based on observation, you are in a VERY small minority, then. I'm happy that Charlie was kind to you.
Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:55 pm
I am as well. All joking aside if he wasn't it would be kind of tough. Think about meeting your hero, and then the person is not nice to you. I know, I know we put them on that level, but still. I feel for the guys that had a hard time with peple even movie stars and such, but I always try to think that there is more than likely another side of the story. I never had a bad time yet with any of the aviation celebs I have met.
Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:05 am
In addition to the aforementioned Gen. Tibbets and my friend Col. Halvorsen, Several other interesting personalities have come through the "Spirit"
Jerry Mathers of Leave it To Beaver fame at one of the last Wilkes-Barre Scranton airshows. ( He was hawking Nicoderm/Nicorette and going around with the Skytypers)
At Concord NH, an enthusiastic Rusty Wallace came through asking lots of questions... (I didnt know who he was while I was talking to him, because I'm from NJ and well, it isnt the biggest NASCAR state. Once I knew he was Rusty, I knew he was THE Rusty Wallace.)
Gens Yeager and Steve Ritche both were through the airplane and met the crew at OSH.
We met Actor Treat Williams at TEB after he flew his T-6 in.
Finally, the chairman of the Smucker's Corporation and its CEO, Mrs Paul and Richard Smucker came though while we were doing some maintenance at Trenton-Mercer. They were kind enough to send us a generous donation shortly after. Unfortuately, Mr. Paul Smucker has since passed. They were really nice. Their corporate jet is aptly named "Strawberry One".
Jerry Mathers of Leave it To Beaver fame at one of the last Wilkes-Barre Scranton airshows. ( He was hawking Nicoderm/Nicorette and going around with the Skytypers)
At Concord NH, an enthusiastic Rusty Wallace came through asking lots of questions... (I didnt know who he was while I was talking to him, because I'm from NJ and well, it isnt the biggest NASCAR state. Once I knew he was Rusty, I knew he was THE Rusty Wallace.)
Gens Yeager and Steve Ritche both were through the airplane and met the crew at OSH.
We met Actor Treat Williams at TEB after he flew his T-6 in.
Finally, the chairman of the Smucker's Corporation and its CEO, Mrs Paul and Richard Smucker came though while we were doing some maintenance at Trenton-Mercer. They were kind enough to send us a generous donation shortly after. Unfortuately, Mr. Paul Smucker has since passed. They were really nice. Their corporate jet is aptly named "Strawberry One".
Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:48 am
I have to tell one on myself. 12 years old, Air Force Brat, father about to retire from Puzzle Palace duty and go into great Military Indutrial complex.
Uncle, then a Bird Colonel, asks me if I want to take a look at the ships that just came into Andrews AFB for storage before disassembly and movement to Maryland (Silver Hill?) for refurbish. Hell yeah!
Swoose and Enola Gay, a P-61 and what I believe was a B-43 (jet engines) looked a lot like a B-26 were all on the ramp. I want in all of them. P-61 and B-43 piece of cake - ditto the Enola Gay, so the Swoose is last. waist door locked!, nose hatch too tall but I know I can get to radio hatch.. but I forget that elevators were fabric (I knew a fair amount for a 12 year snot nosed kid - but not enough).. so on the way to climb up and travel to the radio hatch..
So, you guessed it - I put my shoe through the left horizontal elevator.
Mortified I told my father and Uncle and got a major (all time) ass chewing and had to repeat the exercise with the Base CO. The net was 'not cool' but fixable...
25 years later I'm at the Silver Hill facility for research and mentioned this little story to the then current director - (can't remember his name) and it turns out he was one of the guys that restored the 'Swoose' - and they never knew how that hole had been put there.
I still remember the incredibly BAD feeling I had when my foot went through the fabic.
I've had a lot of great experiences but this was the most memorable!
Regards,
Bill Marshall
Uncle, then a Bird Colonel, asks me if I want to take a look at the ships that just came into Andrews AFB for storage before disassembly and movement to Maryland (Silver Hill?) for refurbish. Hell yeah!
Swoose and Enola Gay, a P-61 and what I believe was a B-43 (jet engines) looked a lot like a B-26 were all on the ramp. I want in all of them. P-61 and B-43 piece of cake - ditto the Enola Gay, so the Swoose is last. waist door locked!, nose hatch too tall but I know I can get to radio hatch.. but I forget that elevators were fabric (I knew a fair amount for a 12 year snot nosed kid - but not enough).. so on the way to climb up and travel to the radio hatch..
So, you guessed it - I put my shoe through the left horizontal elevator.
Mortified I told my father and Uncle and got a major (all time) ass chewing and had to repeat the exercise with the Base CO. The net was 'not cool' but fixable...
25 years later I'm at the Silver Hill facility for research and mentioned this little story to the then current director - (can't remember his name) and it turns out he was one of the guys that restored the 'Swoose' - and they never knew how that hole had been put there.
I still remember the incredibly BAD feeling I had when my foot went through the fabic.
I've had a lot of great experiences but this was the most memorable!
Regards,
Bill Marshall