Warbird Information Exchange

Wind gusting to 35k directly across the runway. Warrior is only rated to 17k max.

My instructor was explaining spins to me and told me:
1) Recover from the spin by neutralizing the yoke and push the rudder that's opposite the direction of the spin, or "step on the high wing". Once you recover from the spin and all that's left is the stall....

2) Recover from the stall.
Sound about right?

Spins??? Maybe after I get a little more comfortable with what I've learned so far.

My next lesson (which I SHOULD be doing right now) is "side slips" and "forward slips". Don't like the sound of "SLIPS."


Mudge the grounded

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Land of the free because of the brave

Oh, slips are COOL!! Plus, if you fly taildraggers like a Cub, a slip is something you NEED to know.

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Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts

Gene Beggs spin recovery......

1. Power...OFF
2. Rudder...opposite from direction of rotation. (If you don't know the direction you're rotating, push one direction...if the spin gets faster, push the other direction.)
3. Control stick/yoke...Release. (Yep, let it go completely.)
4. Recover from dive.

Now please keep in mind, this works great on a Pitts Special and various other aircraft. It MAY NOT work for the one you're flying. PLEASE, PLEASE GET A QUALIFIED INSTRUCTOR BEFORE ATTEMPTING SPINS.

I only posted this as a reference. It may not be verbatim of the Beggs Recovery method, but it is how I was taught it.

Gary

Gary...Thanks for the outline. My instructor DID say "power off". I forgot that (very important) part in my little quote above.
Probably better remember if/when we do a spin...right?

Mudge the semi-skilled

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge, the reason for power off for spin recovery is to get the nose down to gliding attitude and get air flow over the tail so you have control effectivness. Most trainers will likely recover on their own from a SPIN ENTRY, which is just the first turn or two, if you just let go of the controls that put you into the spin. You could curl up into a fetal position. But let's take the other end of the scale; in a few years you are up there doing a hammerhead in your Extra and you wait a liitle to long, or you are doing a great soaring loop in your Mustang, reveling in the roar of the Merlin as it pulls you over the top, and you get a little slow. There's a break, a big wing roll, and suddenly it's not so fun anymore. If you leave on a lot of power the nose may come back up into a flat spin and the tail is blanked out from enough airflow for the rudder to be effective and stop the yaw(rotation). This is the theory, I have not spun a 51, nor flown a Pitts. If you go forward on the yoke or stick before using the rudder, you may get a high speed dive or tuck. Use the Beggs method, there may be a few planes that would need more agressive forward stick, AFTER the other actions, such as if you made the mistake of spinning one with aft CG. Don't sweat all this now, enjoy the rest of your training. Finally, it takes an Uncoordinated Stall to spin, learn to fly coordinated controls and don't stall unless you are landing or practicing.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill,
Thanks for that input. Your "let go of everything" reminded me of something else my "guru" said. Many a/c will do their own recovery if you do absolutely nothing. It may take a couple of turns to recover, but it will recover.

I REALLY appreciate all the input I'm getting from youse troops that have BTDT. It's like having 15 instructors all hammering the same stuff into my head using different techniques. I'm bound to retain something if by no other means than osmosis.

Mudge the fortunate

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Land of the free because of the brave

Up here at UND, for spin recovery in the Warrior they teach us RCTRCT:

Rudder Full Opposite Of Rotation
Control Wheel Full Forward, Ailerons Neutral,
Throttle Idle
Rudder Neutral (after rotation stops)
Control Wheel as Required (after rotation stops)
Throttle as Required (after rotation stops)

Unfortunately I cant do any spins until the CFI course, because the Warrior isn't rated for spins, and then I get to do them in a Decathlon .

As to slips, they're a blast. Especially forward slips.

Gary,
I only read half your post and when I go out and do them, if I'm still alive, I'm going to tell the FAA you taught me how to do them in an on-line flight training course sponsored by the CAF...

Those short wing, dense center of mass aircraft are actually CONSTANTLY hurtling to the ground- the pilot only guides it on its way back to earth...
Can you say Christen Eagle?

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

One big thing is to not use aileron to dampen the spin, being that by changing the airlflow over a certain wing will cause it to stall.

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"There are two types of people here; airshow whores and airshow prostitutes. The whores, like you and I, do airshow stuff for free, whereas the prostitutes are paid" - Reg Urschler

What??? I must not be understanding what you're saying because I thought I made it quite clear that the spin recovery method I posted was only a portion of the items that I was taught, along with insuring that you must have a qualified flight instructor before doing any spins. Besides, what's the CAF got to do with it??? I've never flown a Pitts that they've owned, nor did I even mention them in my post.

Gary

Hey Mudge,

Spins are frightening at first, but when you start doing them enough and understand the principles behind them they become quite interesting.

I used to instruct on gliders, and let me tell you, they are very very good at staying in a spin. It is a very fun way to lose altitude, but you have to be careful with them.

When recovering from a spin it is important not to use your ailerons because part of the reason you're in a spin is because one wing is stalled more than the other. By try applying aileron to level the wings, you would be making the situation worse by stalling the inside wing even more (because of the increased chamber, leading to an increased angle of attack). So....

Another point is once you've broken the spin and you are trying to return to straight and level flight (from the dive) make sure not to cause and "rolling G's". That's where you're trying to get the nose up to a normal attitude, while leveling the wings are the same time.

They always taught me: level the wings first, then pull out of the dive. If you don't, you could be putting undue stress on the airframe.

Oh, and slips.... so fun! And they are very useful. Quite often training airplanes aren't very good at doing slips, so don't be afraid to put in all the rudder you've got. gentle entry and recovery though... You don't want to swing your nose around too much.


ack... probably too much advice.

Cheers,

David

Hey Mudge....
I strongly recommend some spin training with a qualified pilot. I did spin training only after I got myself into a spin while practicing stalls solo.
Long story short....I was flying a Katana (stick, not yoke) and was practicing power ON stalls. What I didn't realize until over a year later was that during stalls, I had a tendency to deflect the stick to one side. Because of this and sloppy stall technique, I got myself into a spin. Obviously, I got out of it again (about 2 1/2 rotations), but it scared the crap outta me! I promptly went and found someone to do spin training with. I felt a lot more comfortable afterward.

And here's a good reason not to slam the rudder to the stops too hard:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 0457&key=1

That killed a couple pilots at my airfield. I used to train in the plane they were flying, which is kinda creepy to me.

Note that their training altitude was a bit lower than recommended for that sort of practice. (GL here is about 800 feet). We are near Cincinnati's Class B airspace, so people tend to stay low to avoid running afoul of commercial traffic. I don't know how much of a factor that was in the accident, which appeared inevitable, but it was definitely unwise.

Respect the spin.

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What is red, furry and on your six?

unload, then pull

Echoing Gary and the Gene Beggs Spin Recovery technique....I did that in Gene's Pitts (actually did his three hour course) in exchange for letting him try his technique (power off, let go of the stick, step on the "hard" rudder, then recover from the resulting dive) in my Harvard. We found that it worked well recovering from a one turn spin, a bit slower but still it recovered after two turns, but beyond two spins you actually had to push aggressively forward on the stick to break the stall....couldn't just let go.

Beggs' ideas were used by the acro guys....they were the ones who were finding themselves in unusual attitude spins....I recovered from upright, inverted, multi-turn, you name it spins in the Pitts using that method, but I don't think it would work in many of the WW II warbirds as easily.

Also, get an instructor before you try this yourself: spins are very disorienting. Slow, cross-controlled (just a tiny bit) nose high and a T-6/SNJ/Harvard will lose 800 feet in a heart beat and fall into a really nice spin. Good to know how to recover!

Actually, the best advice I ever got for warbirds in general: don't stall. No stall, no spin. Works for me.

Old Shep