"Swoose" vs "the Memphis Belle"

[Jerry O'Neill]

I too, would like to see the "Swoose" restored ASAP, along with the conservation and reassembly of "Flak-Bait".

What I want to say is that there are "other means" to get something at NASM restored. They've reined in their loan/restoration program quite a bit, but there are still the aircraft that "get out".

As an example, the Vought Heritage Group in Dallas is restoing the Vought V-173 Flying Pancake. They get it for x-amount of years and then have to return it.

If there was a museum that had the required abilities, desire and financial backing to request a similar deal with NASM and the "Swoose", then everone might win.

Biggest problem is...it's a BIG airplane and will cost a lot more to restore than the V-173! But it could be an alternative. I'd donate money to a museum if they needed help on a project as significant as the "Swoose"!
Anybody else?

Also, just look at what got "pushed up" in the restoration timeline last year because some one donated big bucks to NASM....the P-61 Black Widow! Now on view for everyone to see!

Money is the key.

If there was a fundraising drive for the "Swoose" and we handed NASM "One Million Dollars" (pardon me Dr. Evil!), maybe something would get done!

Blue skies,
Jerry

[k5083]

I favor doing it in house. Likely nobody else can match the quality of the NASM's internal processes for restoration and documentation, and this aircraft presents especially difficult authenticity/originality/provenance issues.

August

[drgondog]

Both outfits in Chino have excellent restoration facilities and craftsmen.. but the Swoose is at least a 1MM job - probably the same for the Belle.

[mustangdriver]

I think the NMUSAF and the Kalamazoo Air Zoo could restore the Swoose to the standards of the NASM. Since the NMUSAF is already doing the Belle, I think that they are out of the question.

[APG85]

I'd like to see them displayed "as is" until they can be restored. Pull them out of storage, put them together, and "store them on display" despite their condition. That way you take care of two problems: storage and the publics desire to see these rare aircraft. Lets face it, the Greatest Generation is getting older and their chances of ever seeing the Swoose or Flak Bait are slim to none. Let them have a look at the planes in their current state. They certainly have the room at Hazy to display them. When time and funding becomes available, pull them from display and put them into restoration. Just my opinion...

[N3Njeff]

That would be great to display them "as Is" then just put a box infront of it for donations for its preservation......................better than sitting in storage collecting dust.

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

That would be great to display them "as Is" then just put a box infront of it for donations for its preservation......................better than sitting in storage collecting dust.

I saw the Swoose at the Garber Center a while back and it would most definitely be a great to see it on display as it is with the wear and tear.

It would be a striking contrast to the pristine examples on display at Udavar Hazy.

[mustangdriver]

I am fine with that as well. Put it out on display until it can be finished.

[k5083]

Based on track record, all of the organizations mentioned thus far would tend to over-restore the airplane and under-document the process. None typically restores aircraft to the NASM's standards. I suppose they could, given detailed instructions and close supervision by NASM. However, I wonder if the NASM is ever really satisfied with the results when they entrust others with the restoration of their aircraft.

I do agree that it would be nice for the unrestored Swoose to be on display. Indeed, has a curatorial decision been made that restoration, as opposed to preservation, is appropriate? That is a not-to-be-made-lightly decision with any true historic artifact.

August

[mustangdriver]

I don't think you would think that if you would stop by the NMUSAF restoration facility, and see what is going on with the Belle.

[k5083]

I would certainly like to see that. I hope they are using a very light hand in restoring it. An aircraft with the historical significance of the Belle should be restored as little as possible, unless it had truly deteriorated to near junk when they received it. It would be nice to think they have learned a little since Shoo Shoo Baby.

August

[aerovin]

I would certainly like to see that. I hope they are using a very light hand in restoring it. An aircraft with the historical significance of the Belle should be restored as little as possible, unless it had truly deteriorated to near junk when they received it. It would be nice to think they have learned a little since Shoo Shoo Baby.

I'm curious as to how you think Shoo Shoo Baby should have been restored: as a combat B-17G, a Dutch passenger transport, or a French survey airplane. The airplane as received by the Air Force Museum was far, far, from its original configuration. The only thing that I would imagine they would have done differently today is they would have finished it in natural metal to replicate its actual bomb group finish, vs. the camouflage paint.

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

Didn't they paint it in olive drab so as to cover the skin work that had to be done to close the window openings from its days in France?

[k5083]

I would certainly like to see that. I hope they are using a very light hand in restoring it. An aircraft with the historical significance of the Belle should be restored as little as possible, unless it had truly deteriorated to near junk when they received it. It would be nice to think they have learned a little since Shoo Shoo Baby.

I'm curious as to how you think Shoo Shoo Baby should have been restored: as a combat B-17G, a Dutch passenger transport, or a French survey airplane. The airplane as received by the Air Force Museum was far, far, from its original configuration. The only thing that I would imagine they would have done differently today is they would have finished it in natural metal to replicate its actual bomb group finish, vs. the camouflage paint.

The paint job would certainly be the most obvious thing.

Making the aircraft airworthy also entailed a sacrifice in authenticity for the sake of expedience that I hope they would consider unwarranted today.

A few months ago someone here on wix wondered what had happened to the ball turret on Strawberry Bitch and it was speculated that it was removed and installed in Shoo Shoo. Mustangdriver was going to look into that for us but if he reported his findings, I missed it. If that indeed happened, it crossed the line from restoration to vandalism IMO.

August

[Flashonyrsix]

The team that did the Boeing Bee and the 237 tried to get the Swoose but were turned down according to one of the team members.

Norm