Aircraft Identity?
Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:23 am
While visiting the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola a few weeks ago I got the chance to visit their remote warehouse, which contained a number of pre-restoration aircraft. There were a couple of aircraft that I would appreciate some help with identifying. One of the aircraft was a Japanese floatplane.
The other aircraft had a swastika on the bottom of the right wing but my guide said it was an English aircraft.
Help identifying these aircraft would be much appreciated.
Ralph
The other aircraft had a swastika on the bottom of the right wing but my guide said it was an English aircraft.
Help identifying these aircraft would be much appreciated.
Ralph
Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:42 am
The second one is a Brewster Buffalo (ex-Finnish, I believe). Over to the experts........
Prinz Eugen Treasure!
Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:59 am
This is the Arado 196 that was taken off of the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen, while it was docked in the Philadelphia Navy Yard in 1946. A couple of sailors made a midnight requisition according to lore and it spent about 40 years sitting on Route 611 in front of the Willow Grove Naval Air Station along with an eclectic collection of Axis aircraft ! (Jill, George, Zero Me 262 P-40)
During the 60s the former pilot of the plane was on duty with NATO and attended a anti submarine school at Willow Grove. He was shocked to find his old plane there.
During the 60s the former pilot of the plane was on duty with NATO and attended a anti submarine school at Willow Grove. He was shocked to find his old plane there.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:16 am
The one with the blue swastika is the Brewster Buffalo (or actually B-239, the export verion) hauled out of a lake in Finland back in the late '90s. It's been the center of controversey, as some (including the Finns) say it was removed from the country illegally.
Interestingly, the Finnish use of the swastika is completely unrelated to Naziism..one of the reasons the symbol was co-opted by the National Socialists is because it had been widely used throughout the world, and was easily recognizable.
The German floatplane is indeed an Ar-196. I didn't realize Pensacola had gotten ahold of it. It certainly shows the ravages of all those years on outdoor display. The aft fuselage and tail feathers were fabric covered..I saw pics of her at Willow Grove in which she appeared to have been re-skinned (crudely) with sheet metal. Looks like they're un-doing the previous "restoration" attempts.
The Japanese plane is an N1K1 Kyofu (Allied reporting name "Rex".) It was originally designed as a dedicated floatplane fighter, to replace the floatplane conversion of the Zero. Although it saw little success, the Kyofu was re-engineered into a landplane..the Shiden (George,) which led to the Shiden-Kai, widely regarded as the best Japanese Naval fighter of the war. Pensacola already has one of those on display..it'd be neat to see both displayed together.
SN
Interestingly, the Finnish use of the swastika is completely unrelated to Naziism..one of the reasons the symbol was co-opted by the National Socialists is because it had been widely used throughout the world, and was easily recognizable.
The German floatplane is indeed an Ar-196. I didn't realize Pensacola had gotten ahold of it. It certainly shows the ravages of all those years on outdoor display. The aft fuselage and tail feathers were fabric covered..I saw pics of her at Willow Grove in which she appeared to have been re-skinned (crudely) with sheet metal. Looks like they're un-doing the previous "restoration" attempts.
The Japanese plane is an N1K1 Kyofu (Allied reporting name "Rex".) It was originally designed as a dedicated floatplane fighter, to replace the floatplane conversion of the Zero. Although it saw little success, the Kyofu was re-engineered into a landplane..the Shiden (George,) which led to the Shiden-Kai, widely regarded as the best Japanese Naval fighter of the war. Pensacola already has one of those on display..it'd be neat to see both displayed together.
SN
Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:29 am
I do believe the Japanese plane is a Kawanishi E7K Alf. Couldn't find it in preservedaxisaircraft.com though.
Mac
Sorry Steve, I didn't see what you posted while I was googling my response.
Mac
Sorry Steve, I didn't see what you posted while I was googling my response.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:33 am
Sorry Steve, I didn't see what you posted while I was googling my response.
Done the same thing myself many times...
SN
Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:51 am
Actually though, the more I look at it, the more I think it might be an Alf. Definitely not a Rex IMHO. The Rex had a single float, was all metal & was a single seater. The plane in the photo has twin floats & looks to be at least a two seater. The Alf had a three man crew, was all metal with fabric covered fuselage, which the plane in the photo looks to have & had twin floats. Again, I'm thinking could be an Alf.
Mac
Mac
Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:56 am
I think we're looking at two different aircraft. The twin-float bird is the Arado. The Rex is the fuselage sitting behind the Buffalo.
A little Googling turned up these pics...
This is the Ar-196 in 1982 outdoors at Willow Grove:
And here's one in operational service:
SN
A little Googling turned up these pics...
This is the Ar-196 in 1982 outdoors at Willow Grove:
And here's one in operational service:
SN
Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:22 am
Thanks much for the quick response and info. Here's a photo of the Rex fuselage.
Ralph
Ralph
Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:45 am
Boy that Rex is in rough shape. I believe it was on outdoor display at Willow Grove along with the Ar-196. A little more Googling turned up this pic..
SN
SN
Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:01 am
There is another Rex at the Nimitz in Fredericksburg.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:32 am
Do you have any more pics? If so, please post. 
Beautiful
Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:34 am
Does anybody have any photos of the Tenzan B6N2 that was at Willow Grove? My favorite Japanese airplane, and a really good performer from what I have heard. I drove by those planes several times when I was a kid, and they really stoked my interest. I can remember today the feel of that chain link against my face pressing just to get as close as I could to them. A friend of mine gave me a piece off the Rex from the last restoration. It has a spot of paint on it.
Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:39 am
the ar - 196 pontoons have faired better than the rest of the sea bird. i built 1 in 1:72 scale years ago, 1 of my favorites completed. the pontoon struts were a royal pain in the ass!!!
Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:16 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think NASM now has the Tenzan B6N2.
I also think the midnight requisition of the Ar 196 might have been done by the late Cmdr. Dave Ascher, who was instrumental in saving ALL those planes at Willow Grove back in the 1940's and at least putting them on display. I doubt any of them would've made it past 1949 if Dave didn't do what he did.
I was proud to have known him.
Jerry
I also think the midnight requisition of the Ar 196 might have been done by the late Cmdr. Dave Ascher, who was instrumental in saving ALL those planes at Willow Grove back in the 1940's and at least putting them on display. I doubt any of them would've made it past 1949 if Dave didn't do what he did.
I was proud to have known him.
Jerry