Flag
Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:18 am
daveymac82c wrote:OK, I've got another question I think might be a stupid one.
What was with the novelty sized American Flags all over the Liberator in those pictures? Weren't the US rondels enough?
-David
I think this was before the U.S. was in the war and we wanted to make sure no one would shoot at us
If you look at the last photo Gary posted,you can see they painted over the flag. 
Phil
Re: Flag
Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:15 am
phil65 wrote:If you look at the last photo Gary posted,you can see they painted over the flag.
I thought that they were hiding the nose art from the WIXers?
Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:15 am
David,
The oversized flags were a part of what was called "Neutrality Markings". The U.S. government wanted to be sure that American airplanes flying near war zones would be definitely identified by potential agressors as coming from a "Neutral" country. Ironically, two B-24As had surveillance cameras mounted and were ready to set off on a recon mission to the Far East when the Pearl Harbor attack occurred. It is generally believed that both airplanes still had the Neutrality flags in place on 7 December. The Navy also used similar markings on the flying boats used for long overwater missions.
Scott
The oversized flags were a part of what was called "Neutrality Markings". The U.S. government wanted to be sure that American airplanes flying near war zones would be definitely identified by potential agressors as coming from a "Neutral" country. Ironically, two B-24As had surveillance cameras mounted and were ready to set off on a recon mission to the Far East when the Pearl Harbor attack occurred. It is generally believed that both airplanes still had the Neutrality flags in place on 7 December. The Navy also used similar markings on the flying boats used for long overwater missions.
Scott
Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:22 am
b29flteng...Yup. You're right.
Lynn Allen...Good question regarding the paint, and I suspect anything is possible. However, even when we had our Easter snow here, the hangar remained heated. It was Open Cockpit Day in the hangar then, so the heat was cranked up for the guests. I think the paint suppliers have it right by saying that the catalyst was bad. We'll see in a day or so.
daveymac82c...Phil65 is correct about the flags. The B-24A's were pre-War airplanes for the U.S. (AM927 was delivered May 7, 1941). Since the British were actively operating the LB-30's (or B-24A "conversions", as Consolidated called them), the U.S. powers that be decided to paint the big, giant flag on each side of the fuselage, along with one on top of the fuselage, in order to make it clear that we were a Neutral country. Obviously, any pictures you see where the flag was painted over is post Pearl Harbor.
Gary
Lynn Allen...Good question regarding the paint, and I suspect anything is possible. However, even when we had our Easter snow here, the hangar remained heated. It was Open Cockpit Day in the hangar then, so the heat was cranked up for the guests. I think the paint suppliers have it right by saying that the catalyst was bad. We'll see in a day or so.
daveymac82c...Phil65 is correct about the flags. The B-24A's were pre-War airplanes for the U.S. (AM927 was delivered May 7, 1941). Since the British were actively operating the LB-30's (or B-24A "conversions", as Consolidated called them), the U.S. powers that be decided to paint the big, giant flag on each side of the fuselage, along with one on top of the fuselage, in order to make it clear that we were a Neutral country. Obviously, any pictures you see where the flag was painted over is post Pearl Harbor.
Gary
Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:41 am
Everyone,
Thanks for all the great in depth answers to my questions. I appreciate it.
Cheers,
David
Thanks for all the great in depth answers to my questions. I appreciate it.
Cheers,
David
Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:59 am
Howdy everyone. Man, yesterday turned into one busy day. You know all of those volunteers I've been begging for since this project started in October? Well, a large group of them all showed up at once. There was one point, late in the day, where I had no less than ten people asking me, "What next Gary? Okay, Gary, I'm done, what now?" and so on. Trust me, I'm not complaining that folks are trying to help out, but with me being a pitiful leader, I had a difficult time trying to cope with finding jobs for lots of folks with....um.....limited mechanical skills to do. I'll try to get a little more organized this morning and get some jobs lined up for them in between coats of paint.
Speaking of paint, I got here about fifteen minutes ago (1:45 a.m.) and have some paint on the paint shaker as we speak, so I better get out there and get started. I took a small batch of photos from earlier in the day yesterday, so I'll try to get some of those posted this morning as well.
See ya' then,
Gary
Speaking of paint, I got here about fifteen minutes ago (1:45 a.m.) and have some paint on the paint shaker as we speak, so I better get out there and get started. I took a small batch of photos from earlier in the day yesterday, so I'll try to get some of those posted this morning as well.
See ya' then,
Gary
Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:36 am
Another example of a US neutrality marked type. This one, of course, is civil.
Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:03 am
Well, as promised, here are a few photos from yesterday. I took these before the large crowd of helpers got here, but there were still plenty of folks busy as bees.
Here's Paul and Ellen masking some of the windows in preparation for the pookie application.......
Fellow WIXer, Alan Brooks, got the lovely task of fixing the paint screw up from the other day..........
Alan's daughter, Stephanie, along with their friend, Butch, were hard at it as well. Steph was getting the gun mounts ready for paint, while I had Butch start laying out the National insignia (I just noticed the angle in which Butch's picture was taken, along with his facial expression, it appears that he's frightened to death that the waist gun is going to fire at any moment.
)........
Tom and Mark, from Dyess Air Force Base, came out and put the ailerons back on the airplane for us (although I had to help just a little bit). This was their first trip to come and help us, and it looks like they'll be back again...........
And I was able to get all of the cowlings repainted this morning. They have all three colors on them and are completely finished (for now). The paint was no issue today, and it seems like we've finally solved that delimma. I just wish the painter could do a decent job. I just don't know what's happened to me with my paint work. It's quality has gradually gotten worse and worse over the years. I am truly disgusted and embarrased with how it's turned out. Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that it'll even stick to the airplane long enough for anyone to see all of the flaws in it.
It's definitely a "thirty footer." 
It's too dark in the hangar right now to get a decent picture of the cowlings, so I'll try to zap one for y'all later in the day.
Gary
Here's Paul and Ellen masking some of the windows in preparation for the pookie application.......
Fellow WIXer, Alan Brooks, got the lovely task of fixing the paint screw up from the other day..........
Alan's daughter, Stephanie, along with their friend, Butch, were hard at it as well. Steph was getting the gun mounts ready for paint, while I had Butch start laying out the National insignia (I just noticed the angle in which Butch's picture was taken, along with his facial expression, it appears that he's frightened to death that the waist gun is going to fire at any moment.
)........
Tom and Mark, from Dyess Air Force Base, came out and put the ailerons back on the airplane for us (although I had to help just a little bit). This was their first trip to come and help us, and it looks like they'll be back again...........
And I was able to get all of the cowlings repainted this morning. They have all three colors on them and are completely finished (for now). The paint was no issue today, and it seems like we've finally solved that delimma. I just wish the painter could do a decent job. I just don't know what's happened to me with my paint work. It's quality has gradually gotten worse and worse over the years. I am truly disgusted and embarrased with how it's turned out. Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that it'll even stick to the airplane long enough for anyone to see all of the flaws in it.
It's definitely a "thirty footer." It's too dark in the hangar right now to get a decent picture of the cowlings, so I'll try to zap one for y'all later in the day.
Gary
Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:16 am
nice work everyone, things are realy starting to move now.
gary, you must be rather proud to know that you are the creator of the first B24A rear gunners position to exist in 60 or so years.
what is the sunken section in the skin above the rear gunners side windows for? sorry to ask at the worst possible time, if your too buisy just ignore the Q.
gary, you must be rather proud to know that you are the creator of the first B24A rear gunners position to exist in 60 or so years.
what is the sunken section in the skin above the rear gunners side windows for? sorry to ask at the worst possible time, if your too buisy just ignore the Q.
Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:42 am
henry wrote:what is the sunken section in the skin above the rear gunners side windows for? sorry to ask at the worst possible time, if your too buisy just ignore the Q.
It's actually just the curvature of the fuselage. There is a fairing that's not installed yet that will cover that up. It was taken off for the tailgunner's installation as well as inspection.
Gary
Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:52 am
Gary and Crew:
It is truly amazing what you have accomplished; by any chance is it going to be around Atlanta this year?
I want to personal thank everybody that has worked on the CAF’s diamond in the rough. Watching this transformation occur over the last few months has captured a national interested that will help the CAF grow to new bounds.
It is truly amazing what you have accomplished; by any chance is it going to be around Atlanta this year?
I want to personal thank everybody that has worked on the CAF’s diamond in the rough. Watching this transformation occur over the last few months has captured a national interested that will help the CAF grow to new bounds.
Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:57 am
pbeegle1 wrote:Gary and Crew:
It is truly amazing what you have accomplished; by any chance is it going to be around Atlanta this year?
Dunno. Our Tour Director, Mack Deeds (who is also one of our pilots), would have that information. I generally don't know much about our tour schedule until we're there.....not because they don't tell me, but because I just never can remember.
Gary
Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:48 am
Gary;
Glad to hear about your problem with extra volunteers. I guess it's better to have too many than not enough...hey? Looks like a lot got accomplished with all of them there which I'm sure will dramatically lower your blood pressure and shrink that large purple vein that's been bulging out of your neck in darn near every picture you've been in. 
(just kidding ).
Keep up the great work!
John
PS. I just noticed this thread has almost reached the 200,000 views mark already...incredible!!!!!!!
Glad to hear about your problem with extra volunteers. I guess it's better to have too many than not enough...hey?
Looks like a lot got accomplished with all of them there which I'm sure will dramatically lower your blood pressure and shrink that large purple vein that's been bulging out of your neck in darn near every picture you've been in. (just kidding ).
Keep up the great work!
John
PS. I just noticed this thread has almost reached the 200,000 views mark already...incredible!!!!!!!
Thanks
Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:35 pm
I started at post #1 just out of curiosity about a week ago and have read through every one of them. It has been a very interesting and learning experience. I thank you Gary and your helpers for taking the time to keep everyone informed even though your "plate has been very full", so to speak.
I haven't been around this aircraft since I dropped out of the CAF in 1993 but let me congratulate you and all your helpers and sponsors for the fine restoration you've accomplished over the years since I flew as engineer on this bird a few times in the late 70's. One of it's quirks that we all expected was that the fire warning light on #3 would come on during takeoff but would go out shortly after the first power reduction with no apparent cause. It was finally corrected when a joint in the exhaust collector ring let go and burned through the fabric/wire intake duct and the engine was feathered. It was in pretty poor shape back then but it's obviously had lots of TLC since. Keep up the good work, y'all.
I haven't been around this aircraft since I dropped out of the CAF in 1993 but let me congratulate you and all your helpers and sponsors for the fine restoration you've accomplished over the years since I flew as engineer on this bird a few times in the late 70's. One of it's quirks that we all expected was that the fire warning light on #3 would come on during takeoff but would go out shortly after the first power reduction with no apparent cause. It was finally corrected when a joint in the exhaust collector ring let go and burned through the fabric/wire intake duct and the engine was feathered. It was in pretty poor shape back then but it's obviously had lots of TLC since. Keep up the good work, y'all.
Correction
Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:49 pm
My 75 year old memory chip is slowing down. The intake duct was made of aluminum (not fabric and wire) and the molten metal cooled as it went through the carburetor and it made minor dings in the impeller wheel below. One of the mechanics spent a day on his belly polishing it out with crocus cloth while one of us would turn the prop an inch or two at a time so he could polish out the next vane. A boring time for all.