Sat May 05, 2007 7:10 am
I've seen the PNG Pacific war museum(well pictures of it). It is a joke. They have many rare and combat vertern planes and they sit rotting away in a shed. 
Sat May 05, 2007 9:35 am
Mustangdriver - If a plane crashed in your backyard would you let it sit for fifty seven years and not consider it yours in liew of rent? Bizarre!
Sat May 05, 2007 9:37 am
Nathan - The interesting part of your statement is that they have many rare warbirds . Wouldn't happen in the U.S because they would have been scrapped ar Kingsman Field or crashed as firefighters or warbirds.
Sat May 05, 2007 10:19 am
They don't have many rare warbirds, they have many rare airframes sitting around that could use restoration. These are not even assembled in many cases.
Sat May 05, 2007 6:59 pm
And like I said all along if a plane crashes in my backyard, it doesn't make it mine
Generally you'd be right. It doesn't.
What is different in this case is that the Army Air Corps waived ownership to all aircraft crashed or abandoned prior to a specific date in the early sixties. That meant that ownership passed to whoever had the most valid claim. In this case it was the government of PNG. That makes it theirs to do with as they see fit.
If you really want to see some of these aircraft restored, then I doubt whether there are any major obstacles to you providing the PNG government with the funds or skills to do so.
If you really want to see another B-17 restoration flying within the United States, then how about voluteering to recover or work on one of the derelict B-17s already there? Why not save those you already have rather than complain about one in another country?
Cheers,
Brett
Sat May 05, 2007 7:18 pm
I am a volunteer at the NMUSAF. We have two B-17's there. I have also worked on Tallichet's B-17, Colling's "909" and Texas Raiders. Get Swamp Ghost somewhere good, and I will help work on it. And everyoone assumes that I want it flying in the U.S. I don't care if it is static or flying, or in the U.S. or in PNG or where ever, but preserve it. laying in a swamp is not preserving it. I can't believe that people that are supposed to be warbird lovers would be against doing something to keep this B-17 around.
Sat May 05, 2007 11:21 pm
Are the organisations you work with willing to help the PNG government with the preservation of this aircraft? They seem to be the best placed to provide the necessary skills and expertise.
That's not a challenge, I was just wondering.
Cheers,
Brett
That's not a challenge, I was just wondering.
Cheers,
Brett
Sun May 06, 2007 5:49 am
There is a direct contradiction here. By lying it a swamp it has been preserved. If it was easily accessible it would have been picked up by
various scrap merchants who virtually cleaned up the islands back in the 1960's. It's great to say that the PNG people havn't done anything to preserve this machine - however before foreign interests got involved she was very intact. For example I believe her spar attachments were cut to take her apart - that isn't preservation.
People love to spout on about how this is a third world country and how they don't deserve to have these machines but the reality is that because of these nations we have a number of airframes within collections around the world that we otherwise wouldn't have.
various scrap merchants who virtually cleaned up the islands back in the 1960's. It's great to say that the PNG people havn't done anything to preserve this machine - however before foreign interests got involved she was very intact. For example I believe her spar attachments were cut to take her apart - that isn't preservation.
People love to spout on about how this is a third world country and how they don't deserve to have these machines but the reality is that because of these nations we have a number of airframes within collections around the world that we otherwise wouldn't have.
Sun May 06, 2007 7:00 am
As for the NMUSAF getting involved, I don't see that happening. From what I understand they won't get involved in it. Now as for the Swamp Ghost being preserved in the swamp, I don't think that you can call a crash scene preservation. The natural elements didn't hurt the aircraft that bad, but being full of water couldn't have been great for it either. It's funny that the PNG government didn't mind anyone working on the airplane until all of the dirty work was done and it was to the docks. Please don't confuse preservation with laying on it's belly in a swamp. What are the down sides to this B-17 leaving PNG?
Sun May 06, 2007 9:26 am
David J Burke wrote:There is a direct contradiction here. By lying it a swamp it has been preserved. If it was easily accessible it would have been picked up by
various scrap merchants who virtually cleaned up the islands back in the 1960's. It's great to say that the PNG people havn't done anything to preserve this machine - however before foreign interests got involved she was very intact. For example I believe her spar attachments were cut to take her apart - that isn't preservation.
People love to spout on about how this is a third world country and how they don't deserve to have these machines but the reality is that because of these nations we have a number of airframes within collections around the world that we otherwise wouldn't have.
It has been stated several times in this forum that the spar attachments were not cut, if that helps put that rumor to rest. Some rusty attachment bolts may have been cut, if I read correctly. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
It was also said that items were being removed from the Ghost where she sat. I don't think leaving an aircraft in place to the ravages of time could be described as preservation either.
My opinion on what to do with the remains of any warbird is to recover and preserve whatever can be gotten before it's gone. I think that many of the unguarded wrecks will be picked clean because of the rise in prices and demand for scrap metal and raw materials (especially from China and India with their booming economies.) The equation is changing and I think many of these wrecks could eventually be lost.
Last edited by DoraNineFan on Sun May 06, 2007 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sun May 06, 2007 3:26 pm
It's funny that the PNG government didn't mind anyone working on the airplane until all of the dirty work was done and it was to the docks.
It is entirely possible that they didn't know what was happening until it appeared on the docks. They are unlikely to monitor the activities of their citizens to quite the same degree as western countries, and inter-departmental communication within the government can be non-existant.
Or perhaps they took the US Navy approach to aircraft recovery?
I don't think there are too many arguments that being in a swamp saved this B-17 from serious degredation up until this point.
However it is no longer in the swamp, and putting it back is not a sensible option.
So lets concentrate on what needs to be done to preserve it from now on.
Cheers,
Brett
Sun May 06, 2007 3:35 pm
No we can't do that. because PNG won't give any one a chance to. You can't honestly expect peple to donate money to the PNG Air Museum. I am sure that all of the funds will be used on that B-17. 
Also if it is such an important artifact to the PNG governement I would think that they would know if someone had moved it to a dock. I still say that they are holding out for a high bidder. Just like the P-61 in China.
Also if it is such an important artifact to the PNG governement I would think that they would know if someone had moved it to a dock. I still say that they are holding out for a high bidder. Just like the P-61 in China.