Warbird Information Exchange

417 Sqn. CO Bert Houle flew a VIII with the extended tips and sometimes one without them.

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Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB

My Spifire belly tank definitely has baffles in it to prevent fuel from sloshing around. I'll write some more later, got to go now.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Early combat VIIIs came with pointed wingtips and rounded rudder. Lots of photos of em out there.

Two from 417 Squadron, same one as Burt Houle flew in as mentioned previously

Let's not forget about all the local and depot-level "kit-bashing" that went on; I think it would be a safe bet to say that any and all combinations possible within a fixed set of parts probably happened or was at least considered once in the field. Things like Mk V's with the later Merlins (or at least the six exhaust stacks per side, as illustrated in the Squadron Spitfire at War book) etc. There is a good pic in the Price spitfire at war book showing a "reconditioned" Mk V being run up at a large Med. area depot, and it has RAF marked wings on a US marked fuselage, so it seems that parts definitely got around, so to speak.

cheers

greg v.

Re. the different wing design. The extended pointed wing tip was intended for high altitude use, from what I read it was not a big sucess. The normal wing design is so good that it doesn't need much help for high altitude. The pointed style looks funny to me and doesn't seem to fit the overall lines. Spitfires have very good aileron controll especially after they went to metal covering due to some distortion in high speed dives. To add a little quickness to roll rate at low altitude use, they had the "clip wing", especially on many Vs and some IXs etc. These are not really different wings, the outer 2 feet or so is a bolt on section, that can be removed, covered with a end cap, and so you have the clip wing. This is a very successful mod; I have flown a couple and it handles very well. I use the full original wing on my MKIX because I prefer the looks, nothing looks better than that wing. I think the clip wing looks good on the V, but strange on a XIV. Full span also gives a little lower stall and landing speed and is better at altitude. The clip wing is only about 3mph faster top speed. My source for that is Alex Henshaw.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Hi Guys,

First I wanted to Thank You all for your input on this. Especially you Bill. I figure if anyone would know about the Spitfire and different Mark variants you would. Even though I have turned a wrench or two on alot of Warbirds in my career, I find myself always wanting to learn more. I have always felt that the War Years of WW II were some of the greatest technological leaps in aviation that the aviation community has ever seen. I kinda figure that leaps of this nature in such a short span of time, given today's costs or R&D are not likely to be as large as during that 4-5 year span in history.

Respectfully,

Paul

As for external fuel tanks, they came in 30, 45, 90, and even a huge 170 gal ferry tank. These figures are in Imperial gals, to convert to US gal multiply by by 1.2. So the big one is 204 gal and the fuel weighs 1224 lbs plus the tank. The small one may be round, the others are box shaped. After quite a bit of looking I was able to find an original in Canada. It was rusted badly, but Nelson Ezell was able to built a new duplicate for me. It was not a simple job, Nelson is a master, and it certainly has baffles. Mine is aluminum, holds 60 gal US and only weighs about 40 lbs.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

All you Spitfire buffs,
Bill's 308WK is the only two place I've ever seen, even in books. How many others survive, flying or not?

Canso42

A great link, thanks mate.

I think there are 6 Tr.IX Spitfires airworthy, and the sole Tr.VIII.

I'm sure somebody that actually knows, as opposed to my educated guess, will pop up sooner or later.

Good guess - there are six trainer Spitfires airworthy, two in the USA and four in the UK. I no longer count the T.VIII as airworthy any longer as it has not flown since 1993 and needs major work (according to the owners website).

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Warbird Colour - Authentic historic aircraft finishes http://www.warbirdcolour.co.uk

See, I knew somebody would really know.

I'm fairly sure the Tr.VIII was the first Spitfire I saw in the wild, so to speak, at Elstree in the very early sixties. Before then, I think I'd only seen the two Mk.Ias in the Science Museum and IWM Lambeth.

As for how many there are it is a bit of a floating question. One, an Irish sistership, was in the Champlin Museum. They used a sheet metal fairing to cover up the rear cokpit so it resembles a single seater, However it is not a very accurate one since the front seat is obviously too far forward. Mine had this in Canada. Also if you look carefully you can see the door outline on the side of the rear cockpit. That is the way I saw the plane last summer when it was on loan to EAA at Oshosh. Don't know if it is still there. I believe Harry Stenger in Florida has built up a 2 seater. I don't know if it is a factory original that has been restored or what. I believe one IAC plane was destroyed by them, and Steven Grey bought a 2 seater and converted it all the way back to a single. So is mine the only flying original one in U S or do we have 4 here, even if all are not flying now? I know of 3 flyable in England, maybe 4 and maybe 1 in Holland?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Steve, as for as I know the VIII 2 seater flew in Oregon area, and it has not been wrecked or disasembled since, so I would count it as intact full 2 seat original Spitfire. Now what would it take to get it flying? Probably just a very thorough intensive annual. I hope who ever buys it does pretty much that, as long as it is safe and does not try to Learjet it up too much.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill et al--

This is making me want, very badly, finally to see TE308...

Neil Medcalf has (or at least had, very recently) a website dedicated specifically to the T8/T9 Spitfires (Vickers Supermarine Type 509) that lists all the survivors, whether VS-built trainers or latter-day "customs" like the Stenger one that's been mentioned above. The Stenger T9 is a beauty, BTW; was recently completed and flown in USAAF desert camo, one of the most striking finishes yet seen on a restored Spit. Actually the term "reincarnated" might be nearer the mark, as it's based on a new-build fuselage started by Dick Melton in the UK; bears the ID MH367 and apparently incorporates some componentry from that Spit. Like PT462, also done by Melton iirc (for Charles Church), MH367 is a "Grace T9" with the twin-Malcolm-hood setup--quite different from the factory two-seater in looks.

At one time, BTW, the Stenger T9 was expected to come to Ontario to be based at Waterloo with collector Carey Moore; Carey was very eagerly anticipating its arrival...but of course was killed in the crash of his Fury in July 2001 and his Waterloo aviation venture was wound-up.

S.