TF-51 due to fly across the Atlantic this summer ?

[Randy Haskin]

There may be a FAR against passenger-carrying, revenue-generating commercial flight overwater in a single engine aircraft....but certainly there's no prohibition against just flying one trans-oceanic.

[bdk]

Flying across the ocean in a single engine aircraft. ... Is that even legal?

If you were a commercial air carrier carrying passengers, no. On a ferry flight, absolutely.

[mustangdriver]

That must be what I am thinking of. I must be thinking of Part 135.

[Lynn Allen]

They were swinging the gear yesterday and looking foward for a 1st flight next week. It was a beehive yesterday, getting things done. Only thing I forgot to ask Stevie was what he is going to solo next. They are a really great group of people to be around.

As far as FAR's about crossing the pond, the only thing I can think of is if you are being paid, you better be a commercial driver and be able to read the weather

Lynn

[Mike]

Red Bull

And maybe another one (or even two)!

[ALAN.L]

Red Bull

And maybe another one (or even two)!

Just for this season Mike or a bit more permanent ?

Alan

[treadigraph]

Well, if all this really does happen we Brits (ok, Europeans) are going to be very spoiled. But I'd happily swap one of the P-38s to keep the Tigercat...

Looking forward to seeing Glacier Girl and the TF.

[kmiles]

There is nothing that says that you can't take a single-engine aircraft across either the Atlantic or Pacific. I had a professor in college that made a business of taking aircraft across for people.
He would take them into Maine (Bangor I think) and have long range tanks put in. Some of the smaller aircraft (think Cessna 172) they would take the rear seat out and replace it with a long range fuel bladder. There is a route that they take with the longest over water leg is somewhere around 700 miles. That is short compared to the 2800 to Hawaii when they take aircraft across the Pacific. There is a whole system in place for reporting positions. I do not know a whole lot about it, but I spent more than one class session listening to the most recent adventure from the professor.
It is not something that I would want to so in a single engine (espically one with pistons) but there are people that are doing it just about every day during the warmer months.

[Second Air Force]

Bill,

I cut across a portion of Lake Superior in a C206 once apon a time, and even though I could see the shore easily, it was still an erie feeling to see all that water around me. I can't imagine a green fighter pilot setting out for Europe or the guys flying those Hellcats, Corsairs, P-47s and P-51s in the Pacific. That would be one LONELY feeling!, even with a mother ship for navigation.

Scott

[Bill Greenwood]

Scott, even hear that Bill Cosby skit where he is Noah and the Lord tells him to build the arc. He begins, but gets tired and quits when the neighbors make fun of him for building a boat in the desert. The deep, booming voice of God comes down from above and says, "Noah, how long can you tread water"? That's how I feel about flying across the ocean.

[mustangdriver]

I am all for flying some warbirds and having some on static, but I think that this is more of a stunt that does not need to be made. I am ready to take the heat for saying that, but I think that it is a huge risk to take in one of the last P-38's flying. Then you factor in the guy in the single engine P-51!

[bipe215]

When you think about it, a few hours over water in an aircraft that's probably better than new, with a pilot that is one of the most experienced wardird guys in the world, is no more dangerous than a flight over mountainous terrain. Over mountains, where there is no chance of a successful forced landing, the only option is bailing out. Then the aircraft makes a smoking hole. My guess is Glacier Girl has been over lots of inhospitable terrain (some of it near Middleboro), but no one complains about that.
Just my opinion.

Steve G

[bomberflight]

Flying across certainly holds a number of risks, but so does moving them by shipping container.

A few years back we were having problems with ready made garments ( on hangers ) arriving in a heap on the floor of the container. Not good news when the customer brand is a major household name.

Containers were fitted with instruments to measure the dynamic load forces inside the box while at sea. Imagine our supprise to find that at certain postions on the vessel the cargo could regularly pull 4 G's in a bad storm.

The organisers of Europe's most popular warbird show had access to a small but dedicated band of warbird enthusiasts in my old shipping company ( we were 3rd largest in the world). Support went all the way up to two main board directors. This meant that the upmost care was taken of each and every "star" for that years show, at every stage of the shipment. And much of the work was done at cost and sometimes for no charge.

As a matter of trust, those of us within the carrier that knew what was coming across never told anyone what the suprise was going to be.

Our company ceased to be 18 months ago after we were absorbed by a much larger rival. With it went the UK warbird movements access to a unique knowledge base in safe warbird carriage by sea and delivery by road at prices that weren't based on commercial gain for the carrier.

These days it's going to be done on a purely commercial basis. Any cargo above a certain value can be freighted outside the normal cargo rates on an ad valorum basis ( think 2 percent of the value of the cargo and ask yourself just how much is that TF-51 worth ..... ) plus "special" handling fees, trucking etc etc.

When you look at who is planning these air moves, I'm sure that they have done a full risk assessment of the mission and godspeed them on their way.

These are just some personal thoughts on the logistics of these movements, when viewed from the nautical delivery angle.

[mustangdriver]

I have to say that I am on the side that says don't do it at all? What is the point?

[Nathan]

Not sure its a good idea flying the P-38F across. She might end up back in Greenland.